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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
 Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:02:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Heynow777
quote:
Originally posted by Doug G
Secretary Powell just strongly confirmed to a congressional panel that the US will not allow the UN to be the "center of gravity" in any reconstruction efforts in Iraq. He stated the US will control the reconstruction.
Kind of related.
http://www.forbes.com/business/energy/newswire/2003/03/26/rtr920534.html
Now Doug, this thread must be very easy for you...come in quote someone else and post a link, but no real input on the war. The US spent the most money in 1991, so why not get the most contracts?
Yep 
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Heynow777
That is a matter of ones opinion.
The opinion is not of one Person... |
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Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:11:58
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quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
quote:
Originally posted by Heynow777
That is a matter of ones opinion.
The opinion is not of one Person...
And neither is the opinion for war. |
Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
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GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:13:50
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| Exactly so if there is a disagreement either way it should have been decided by majority, the Democratic way. |
Edited by - GauravBhabu on 26 March 2003 20:14:51 |
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sy
Average Member
United Kingdom
638 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
Originally posted by sy
If its about WMD, then it doesn't take an army or a regime to deliver WMD ...(snip)...if you think this is the reason for this war, then we as the coalition are using a steamroller to try kill a fly.
Maybe this war is to liberate a nation who's population is being oppressed and killed by the governing state, well, this is the only reason I can clearly see which would make this aggression valid in any way at the moment, to me at least,...
You have a good point there, sy.
I have the feeling that this one particular motivation is what lies underneath all the other given reasons, valid or not.
But I can well imagine how much more of an uproar going in just on that motivation alone would have created.
The cause would still have been a just one, and worthy of support simply to put an end to the suffering of the millions over there.
But at this time we are still too much in the dark over the urgency of the other reasons.
They may or may not be a priority, but IF they are we certainly were lucky that some people had the foresight to recognize them and the resolve to do something about it.
Remember Lord Chamberlain's mistakes?
quote:
now we are seeing the deaths of civlians heavily increasing.
Yes, which is always a sad side effect of wars.
But always remember that no mishaps or errors or malfunctions of weaponry can ever equal the WANTON killing of their own people, even as we speak.
- Forcing them at gunpoint to sacrifice their lives to the opposing forces - they face death either way!
- Using women and children as human shields!
- Using civilians with white flags to bait and ambush the enemy!
- putting military assets in the midst of civilian areas!
quote:
Just how many generations of Iraqi's who have lost loved ones in these wars will it take to forget about who it was killed their kin, and rejoice in their liberation?
Hopefully, they will make that distinction.
In 1945 I was a little boy in war-torn Vienna, and remember when my older brother was marched at gunpoint by Nazi officials to the southern outskirts of the city to "stop" the liberation forces of the Allies.
He was one of the lucky ones who escaped.
I am 64 now, and still grateful for my liberation from the Nazis, which allowed me to lead a life without the oppression my people faced then.
Alfred.
Hi Alfred, thank you replying and your opinion is insightful towards what has happened both now and in the past.
I just don't buy the 'forced to fight' angle just yet though, from what i have seen and read, the consensus seems that the people of iraq (and some of those displaced in the last war, and are returning to fight the coalition), would rather have saddam than bush in control of their country, there is an old saying i half recall, about brothers fighting brothers, but it is more important to fight the outsider first, I'll try get a link.
Perhaps the civilians in the groups of surrendering people, accompanied by the armed forces of Iraq, are in fact disguised soldiers, playing on the fact that our coalition troops will not fire upon them, until the mask is pulled back, and they reveal themselves as members of the feydeen saddam?
Remember to check http://www.agonist.org website for the latest opinion and news on the conflict from all sides.
EDIT: To fix link
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The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails
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Edited by - sy on 26 March 2003 20:18:44 |
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Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
Exactly so if there is a disagreement either way it should have been decided by majority, the Democratic way.
I agree and as of now 71% of Americans approve the war. |
Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
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sy
Average Member
United Kingdom
638 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:25:07
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Just as a refer back to my comment, regarding displaced Iraqi's apparently returning to Iraq to fight the coalition:
"Me against my brother; my brother and I against my cousin; my brother, my cousin and I against the stranger."
I got the quote wrong. |
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails
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GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:27:21
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| The polls you refer to do not give a true idea heynow777. Even if you refer to that then don't just restrict what Americans approve. When it is an International matter you need to look at the opinion of people in other countries as well. |
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seahorse
Senior Member
USA
1075 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:28:39
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quote:
1966-1972
Our ship moved to it's new homeport in Yokosuka Japan shortly after the TET offensive began. We spent about every other month on duty in the Gulf of Tonkin for the next two years, then I transferred to another ship based in Pearl Harbor and made two more Wespac trips.
Dad was in Turkey during the Cuban Missle Crisis. "Eyeball to eyeball" with the Russians to hear him tell it.  He can still count to ten in Turkish. Probably the only Turkish he ever learned.  You're a bit younger than Dad.
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Ken
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Worldwide Partner Group
Microsoft |
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:33:47
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quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
The polls you refer to do not give a true idea heynow777. Even if you refer to that then don't just restrict what Americans approve. When it is an International matter you need to look at the opinion of people in other countries as well.
What does it matter what the polls say? It's not like we are going to hold a public vote to see if we should go to war or not. We in the United States elect representatives to represent us. If the Congress (our elected officials) didn't want us to go to war, then they would not allow it. If a majority of the people don't feel that their representative is representing them adequately, then they won't be elected next time around. |
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Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:35:13
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quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
The polls you refer to do not give a true idea heynow777. Even if you refer to that then don't just restrict what Americans approve. When it is an International matter you need to look at the opinion of people in other countries as well.
We the people of the United States are using our right to protect ourselves. To me, that is all that counts right now. |
Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
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seven
Senior Member
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:39:04
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| Where can you read what's in the Geneva convention documents? |
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seahorse
Senior Member
USA
1075 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 20:39:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Heynow777
Those of you opposing the actions of the United States and its allies. ... you provide no facts, just opinions. That is weak!
My opinion: I'm against the Iraqi invasion because it's a huge waste of money on a country that isn't worth the sand it's built on.
My fact: $75 billion dollars, the estimated cost of the war straight from the mouth of President George W Bush.
I'm open to all other solutions, both military and non-military. I do not believe my opinion is extreme or unfounded.
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Ken
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Worldwide Partner Group
Microsoft |
Edited by - seahorse on 26 March 2003 21:05:57 |
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 26 March 2003 : 21:06:21
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quote:
Hi Alfred, thank you replying and your opinion is insightful towards what has happened both now and in the past.
I just don't buy the 'forced to fight' angle just yet though,
I am afraid that I have to give it more credence, although neither of us has definite proof yet.
Based on their record, these fanatics are no different than Stalin's henchmen were, or Hitler's brownshirts.
quote:
from what i have seen and read, the consensus seems that the people of iraq (and some of those displaced in the last war, and are returning to fight the coalition), would rather have saddam than bush in control of their country, that there is an old saying i half recall, about brothers fighting brothers, but it is more important to fight the outsider first, I'll try get a link.
No need for the link, I fully understand your reference. There may be some of that, I am actually quite sure there is.
But there is also some more to it.
Thousands of Iraqis who were ready to throw off their shackles after we freed Kuwait feel they were let down by the coalition. Disillusioned when the US withdrew after doing what they set out to do, instead of finishing the job and liberating the people of Iraq from their oppressors, they were crushed and most of them paid the ultimate price for their daring.
They have not forgotten, and want to play it safe this time.
But given half a chance, and some reassurance of success, they are as ready and eager for freedom as they were for our first relief shipments today.quote:
Perhaps the civilians in the groups of surrendering people, accompanied by the armed forces of Iraq, are in fact disguised soldiers, playing on the fact that our coalition troops will not fire upon them, until the mask is pulled back, and they reveal themselves as members of the feydeen saddam?
Yes, we know this to be fact as well.
Given such tactics, what would you tell your son to do?
I know what I would tell mine. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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