| Author |
 Topic  |
|
bjlt
Senior Member
1144 Posts |
 Posted - 24 March 2003 : 13:01:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
bjlt, you wrote
I am sorry, but there is no way I can accept your view on that particular point.
There is NO excuse EVER for intentionally harming innocent, uninvolved people, for ANY cause whatsoever.
Doing so is an act of utmost cowardice and disregard of basic "right and wrong".
"What should they" do is not a justification to do the wrong thing.
If they cannot find the right way they may have to face the fact that their cause is a lost one, the same way as we have to face this fact on many occasions.
And believe me, it is harder to accept that fact when you know in your heart that your cause was just.
Sorry I see no difference between our views, there might be a language/culture barrier on my description and your understanding on it. I totally agree with you on it. I don't think at all it's right to do such discusting things, no matter for what a reason.
Yet I still don't think Americans think enough about the reasons and that is the key to solve the problem.
mnnnnh, I'd like to see what Americans think about the reasons of 911. Please no things like virgins in heaven, the one who placed bombs might be a brain washed puppet only.
No I don't think it's merely a conflict between cultures or religions.
|
Edited by - bjlt on 24 March 2003 13:21:14 |
 |
|
|
Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 14:12:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
...If 9/11 had happened in Bombay you would probably feel different about it too...
If that had happened there USA would always say "Use Restrain". USA Bombed Afghanistan after 9/11 and now Iraq. Which other country has gone attacking other countries following terrorist acts on their Land or how many times USA has told the Nations, facing or fearing terrorist attacks, to go attack the Nations which are belived to be behind those actual or feared acts of terrorism.
I am not against America or Americans. It is just that I do not support any act of Killing.
Peace. Stop War.
We are fighting the Taliban with good reason - they harbored the terrorists.
And if the US would not use restraint Baghdad would be blown off the face of the earth.
Unfortunately our concern for civilians is misconstrued by those idiots as a weakness.
On the other hand, what should one expect from people who use women and children to hide behind. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
|
|
|
|
Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 14:26:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by bjlt
Alfred,
snipped (refers to American Indian wars)...
My impression is the US hasn't done simmilar things.
I do believe that many many Americans have some sort of internationalism and they have been and are spilling blood for the purpose you mention. Yet there are many many people have the impression that what the US government has done to other nations in the past does show quite some natures against what they have claimed. I know some of them are due to propaganda and censorship, but I also believe some are ture or really sounds/looks true. Israeli for example. What will you think someone who claims to always do the right thing but you see unfairness and selfish behind it?
Two different points: - 1. You are talking about an era during which colonialism was every major nation's aspiration. This happened over 250 years ago, and the US has matured from that.
- 2. The 2000 years old problem of finding a homeland for the Jews has nothing to do with our current challenge, although - as usual - the US is trying to be the good guys there as well and find a solution for it.
|
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
|
|
|
|
Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 14:43:08
|
quote:
mnnnnh, I'd like to see what Americans think about the reasons of 911. Please no things like virgins in heaven, the one who placed bombs might be a brain washed puppet only.
No I don't think it's merely a conflict between cultures or religions.
I can't say what others think about the reasons, but I can tell you what I think.
I suspect it is a mixture of religious fanaticism and the deep seated hatred for anyone who they call "the infidel", as well as resentment of US efforts to what they perceive as one-sided dealings with the Israeli problem.
I am not a religious person, and I detest all the bad things that people have done in the name of their gods.
Religious fervor has brought misery upon mankind for ages. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
|
|
|
|
GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 15:13:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
We are fighting the Taliban with good reason - they harbored the terrorists.
Oh! so after Taliban is gone there will be No Terrorists? There are many other countries harboring terrorists, no no they are coopertaing, they are friends.
quote:
And if the US would not use restraint Baghdad would be blown off the face of the earth.
USA is there bombing Iraq because the USA Administration did not use Restrain.
quote:
...Baghdad would be blown off the face of the earth
so much is the power of US weapons. They are sure WMD.
Peace. Stop War. |
Edited by - GauravBhabu on 24 March 2003 15:26:54 |
|
|
|
Classicmotorcycling
Development Team Leader
Australia
2085 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 15:40:17
|
GauravBhabu,
On the other hand, I beleive that the USA, Britan and Australia have used Restrain. 
quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
USA is there bombing Iraq because the USA Administration did not use Restrain.
My understanding and I am sure the rest of the world heard the USA given not 1, but about 3 different dates to disarm, but like the dictator Saddam is, he played games and did not disarm. 
He also promised the whole world, that he had no weapons of mass destruction, but we now know that to be total and utter lies. Where does the rest of the world draw the line? Do they turn around and say: "Hey buddy, when you are ready to disarm can you do it, but only when your ready!". I think not.
Saddam was given ample time to come clean, but it has taken the invasion to show the UN, that they got it wrong and they NOW need to take a firm stand.
|
Cheers,
David Greening |
|
|
|
Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 16:14:29
|
quote:
He also promised the whole world, that he had no weapons of mass destruction, but we now know that to be total and utter lies.
Do you have a concrete example of these lies?
|
======
Doug G
======
Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
|
|
|
Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 16:20:02
|
quote:
Oh! so after Taliban is gone there will be No Terrorists? There are many other countries harboring terrorists, no no they are coopertaing, they are friends.
Ah well, since we can't do it all at once, we may as well just stand by (like others succombing to apathy) and do nothing, right?
Is that your solution to the problem of terrorism?
Why don't you help fight the evil?
By demoralizing the genuine efforts of those who DO try to fight it for you you are not helping peace, but prolonging the suffering of innocent victims.quote:
USA is there bombing Iraq because the USA Administration did not use Restrain.
Have you ever seen a superpower who uses it's muscle with such concern for civilians?
Have you seen the clips of Baghdad streets full of cars going about their daily lives, knowing that all they have to worry about is to stay away from Government installations (and one of the 50 palaces built with the wealth he stole from his people?
You just don't get it, do you?
If this was not the US but another power with similar muscle, Baghdad would be blown away, civilians and all.
quote:
so much is the power of US weapons. They are sure WMD.
It sounds as if you didn't know the difference.
Maybe you will when it is too late.
Very sad. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
|
|
|
|
Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 16:23:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Doug G
quote:
He also promised the whole world, that he had no weapons of mass destruction, but we now know that to be total and utter lies.
Do you have a concrete example of these lies?
We prefer our way of finding them to the way you seem to imply.
Your way would be VERY regretful for all of us. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
|
|
|
|
GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 16:26:31
|
Yes! I fail to see the difference between a Missile and a Missile, A bomb and A Bomb. May be you see it.
You are talking about War and Peace and I am talking about Peace. |
|
|
|
Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 16:26:57
|
And now I'll have to excuse myself again for a while.
My sense of right and wrong, of good and evil is just too strong to discuss this without coming up for fresh air now and then. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
|
|
|
|
GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 16:42:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
By demoralizing the genuine efforts of those who DO try to fight it for you you are not helping peace, but prolonging the suffering of innocent victims.
Genuine Efforts?
Fighting for Me? When did I ask for War? This War is supported by the fear created by USA Adminstration after 911 for what happened on 911. That was an act of terrorism. Now people are being terrorize by the sense of Fear. |
|
|
|
Reinsnitz
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
3545 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 16:45:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
The so called Kurdistan also includes the north-eastern parts of Turkey... Turkey (hopefully) governs itself, and existence of Kurdistan (having control of some of the oil in north Iraq) will cause much more problems.
...and that would be a problem because...?
What would be wrong with an ethnic group to decide how they want to live?
What would be wrong with a plebiscite for the Kurds?
They have always been a fiercely independent people, and had to survive for centuries under the yoke of foreign governments.
Alfred, There is a very good reason on this one, and I have a hard time stomaching it myself, but here goes:
The people of Kurdish "nationality" from the youngest to the oldest are (from what I have learned and what i Have learned is not very informed) quasi terrorists. Much like the Palestinians, instead of using peacefull means of resolving issues have gone to murerouse means of expressing their opinions... a people like this is a hard one to give the right to rule themselves, especialy when they are acting much like terrorist organizations like Alquida.
Maby it would be realy helpfull for us to get a historical perspective from Bozden? |
Reinsnitz (Mike) |
|
|
|
HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20604 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 17:09:34
|
it is difficult not to be a terrorist when your country is run by somebody else.
the Kurds territory is predominantly in Iraq, but a considerable amount of what they constitute as their country is also in Turkey, The turkish are afraid (with some good reason) that allowing the kurds control of the oil which lies in their territory will give them enough money to maybe decide to take back the rest of their 'country' from the turks.
while they may have a perfectly valid historical claim, I think we are going to get in a real mess if we start giving everyone their countries back, especially the USA  |
|
|
|
Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 17:14:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
Genuine Efforts?
Fighting for Me? When did I ask for War? This War is supported by the fear created by USA Adminstration after 911 for what happened on 911. That was an act of terrorism. Now people are being terrorize by the sense of Fear.
GauravBhabu, 9/11 was a wake up call. Seeing the celebrations in the streets and the chants of death to America was also a wake up call. We take all threats very serious now and if that threat is serious enough, we will act on it. We have a free media in this country and one that is very critical of the Administration, so that is not the only reason. The people who are being terrorized by the bombing over Iraq is because their government posses a threat to the free world and nothing more. I hope some of these Arab countries should look at this and learn to stop the propaganda about the US and that would be a start to peace. What is good and evil and not what is American and Arab.
Fear? you better believe it, but not by the administration, but by the hatred we see on our televisions. |
Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
