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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
 Posted - 23 March 2003 : 23:38:58
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Bozden, I would be curious to know how you -- from your prespective -- feel about the Israel/Palistine issue. I don't want to know what you think needs to be done, I only want to here which side you take and why.
No riding the fence. |
 Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 23:49:02
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quote:
US tried to pull Turkey into war by showing the possibility that they will allow a Kurdish State in North Iraq. This is something Turkey cannot allow
So Turkey feels it is her right to "allow" or disallow a neighboring people to govern itself?
Heaven help the world if your country were a superpower. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 00:08:49
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quote:
quote:
Are you that comfortable with taking the side of such obvious evil?
I don't think nobody here takes side of Saddam. It must be a "fatal" misunderstanding.
There are only two sides in this discussion.
As President Bush has said some time ago: "You are either with us, or you are against us".
The arguments for non-action, or more patience and submission to lies and deception are not acceptable any longer.
12 years of it is enough, and most Americans are unwilling to wait until an even more horrible disaster is brought upon us.
It should have been done as soon as Saddam flaunted the UN resolutions and expelled the weapon inspectors a few years ago.
If 9/11 had happened in Bombay you would probably feel different about it too.
As the events of the last two days proved again (as if we needed any more proof) no dirty tactics are sacred to these fanatics.
To overlook all that and take their side is simply unfathomable to us. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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Edited by - Alfred on 24 March 2003 00:30:05 |
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 00:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
Bozden, I would be curious to know how you -- from your prespective -- feel about the Israel/Palistine issue. I don't want to know what you think needs to be done, I only want to here which side you take and why.
No riding the fence.
I'm not in position to take a side and/or advise on what is to be done. That issue is something very disturbing for me. Therefore I didn't post any thoughts in that topic in the forums. I can deduce what is wrong, I can think on what has to be done, but it is not a football match to take side.
If it comes to feelings, the main input in my "reasoning" will be the difference in the powers of both sides, mainly favoring the side of the "weak", meaning Palestine. I can play emphatic with people under oppression, and I think everyone has to. That does not mean that I can accept terrorist attacks (from both sides) against civilians thou.
I'm really sorry what's happening in there, and most of the times I get angry  .
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 00:37:16
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I brought it up because it was the best example I could think of where a nation of people (palistinians) are being denied their own state (oppressed/ocupied). Other recent examples of this Nation-State issue are the Yougoslavia problems, and the Chechnian problems.
The are also a nation of people who currently do not have, but are seeking their own state. Just a random thought. . . . |
Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 00:54:56
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Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
quote:
Are you that comfortable with taking the side of such obvious evil?
I don't think nobody here takes side of Saddam. It must be a "fatal" misunderstanding.
There are only two sides in this discussion.
As President Bush has said some time ago: "You are either with us, or you are against us".
The arguments for non-action, or more patience and submission to lies and deception are not acceptable any longer.
12 years of it is enough, and most Americans are unwilling to wait until an even more horrible disaster is brought upon us.
It should have been done as soon as Saddam flaunted the UN resolutions and expelled the weapon inspectors a few years ago.
If 9/11 had happened in Bombay you would probably feel different about it too.
As the events of the last two days proved again (as if we needed any more proof) no dirty tactics are sacred to these fanatics.
To overlook all that and take their side is simply unfathomable to us.
Well, it has no value for me what that man said.
But, again I feel a need to re-state (guess why) that I was very sorry for the deaths in Sep. 11th, I'm also sorry for all people dying in the current war. I didn't understand your command on Bombay thou.
I'm against fanatics, it's just caused by the lack of grey matter. As I repeatedly stated, radical nationalism is one kind of fanaticism for me.
If you insist to call us (no-war opposition) as "enemy", I'd regretfully hear that, but it will not make us so...
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
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Classicmotorcycling
Development Team Leader
Australia
2085 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 01:04:30
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"You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, France is accusing the US of arrogance and Germany doesn't want to go to war."
Good to see that Iraq doesn't have a Chemical Weapons factory at all and there was no need for the allied forces to go in and attack the alleged dictator.
What a joke. The UN security council has no other choice but to get everyone involved and remove the dictator..
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David Greening |
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 01:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
I brought it up because it was the best example I could think of where a nation of people (palistinians) are being denied their own state (oppressed/ocupied). Other recent examples of this Nation-State issue are the Yougoslavia problems, and the Chechnian problems.
The are also a nation of people who currently do not have, but are seeking their own state. Just a random thought. . . .
IMO, it is not far to have a world state, some 200 years or so, a very short time compared to total human history. It will be a disturbing, shakey and hateful period, but the snowball started to roll and it will come to an happy end.
When that period comes, our grand-grand-children will talk on completely different topics and will wonder on these dark ages in their history. Whatever we are doing nowadays will effect this development in positive or negative manner.
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seahorse
Senior Member
USA
1075 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 01:12:24
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As President Bush has said some time ago: "You are either with us, or you are against us".
Jeez, that scares me. Are you telling me that to be an American I have to tow whatever line the current administration puts out?
American democracy over the years has experienced numerous trials and tribulations during it's 200 plus year history. The Vietnam war era saw many Americans argue passionatly about what they felt was the right path for the country to take.
What makes America, America is the fact that you can have a difference of opinion on the Vietnam War (or the current Iraq conflict) and still be a loyal American. Remember what America stands for lest you destroy it while professing to protect it.
I love America. That doesn't mean I have to love George Bush (or even agree with what he says).
Now before you roast me for being a pinko Commie muslim terrorist bent on undermining the US, let me say this.
I blame George Bush SENIOR for not having the guts to finish the job and dispose of Saddam when he had the chance back in 1991. We were all over Iraq in 1991 and he let the S.O.B go. No one would have cared less if we had put a laser guided bomb through Saddam's front window then.
Does this mean that I like the current conflict? No. It's twelve years too late. I rather we get the business of killing Saddam and his cronies done and over with as soon as possible.
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 01:22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
US tried to pull Turkey into war by showing the possibility that they will allow a Kurdish State in North Iraq. This is something Turkey cannot allow
So Turkey feels it is her right to "allow" or disallow a neighboring people to govern itself?
Heaven help the world if your country were a superpower.
Well Alfred, the problem is "a bit" more complex. Think of a hypothetical case of people on North Canada want self-governance also adding Alaska into their land...
I'd advise you to read on reasons of problems in Middle-East.
quote:
Heaven help the world if your country were a superpower.
Yeah, that would be unfortunate  .
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 02:27:37
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So Turkey feels it is her right to "allow" or disallow a neighboring people to govern itself?
Heaven help the world if your country were a superpower.
No, that judgment is reserved for the U.S. it seems :)
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 02:36:39
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Jeez, that scares me. Are you telling me that to be an American I have to tow whatever line the current administration puts out?
No but you have to toe the line to whatever the forum admins put out apparently.
"My best wishes to the troops on the ground, but not to the bosses that put them there" is too controversial a sentiment to be allowed to be posted in the yellow ribbon topic. In the eyes of a Vietnam Vet who is against this war, that censorship kind of fades the yellow to colorless. I don't feel any obligation to support a course of action our country is on that I think is wrong, wrong, wrong, but having once been a troop in the field I surely support the troops.
Someone in the other thread stated I have to support the Administration if I want to support the troops. In answer, no I don't. I'm perfectly capable of supporting our troops without supporting the current Administration.
I wonder if this post will survive 
$0000.02
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 02:54:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug G
quote:
Jeez, that scares me. Are you telling me that to be an American I have to tow whatever line the current administration puts out?
No but you have to toe the line to whatever the forum admins put out apparently.
"My best wishes to the troops on the ground, but not to the bosses that put them there" is too controversial a sentiment to be allowed to be posted in the yellow ribbon topic. In the eyes of a Vietnam Vet who is against this war, that censorship kind of fades the yellow to colorless. I don't feel any obligation to support a course of action our country is on that I think is wrong, wrong, wrong, but having once been a troop in the field I surely support the troops.
Someone in the other thread stated I have to support the Administration if I want to support the troops. In answer, no I don't. I'm perfectly capable of supporting our troops without supporting the current Administration.
I wonder if this post will survive
$0000.02
I actually do consider my position in Snitz. It is getting harder and harder for me to support it which is officially supporting war on its main site.
I started to expect real troubles when I start to remove any culture dependent (e.g. religious) items out of it. The question is: Will Snitz v4 a US only SW or an international one?
On the other hand, I don't want to be a man who gives up so easily.
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snerdley
New Member
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 24 March 2003 : 03:16:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug G
quote:
So Turkey feels it is her right to "allow" or disallow a neighboring people to govern itself?
Heaven help the world if your country were a superpower.
No, that judgment is reserved for the U.S. it seems :)
Even if that were so, it would have every right to, seeing as how the spilled blood on the desert sands you are seeing is coming from the Americans, Brits and Aussies. Certain rights come with having the courage to do the right thing. And spilling the honorable and courageous blood of your nations sons and daughters, to do the right thing in standing up to a ruthless dictator, is the ultimate sacrifice.
But as usual, we will not issue any judgement unilaterally. I'm sure all nations will be asked to take part in the rebuilding and future of Iraq. Even those who deserted us in a time of need.
That's just the way we are......... always doing the right thing. Even when it hurts.
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