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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
 Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:10:45
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quote:
Originally posted by snerdley
quote:
Sure can! It has to start with One Person, One Family, One Community, One Nation and it will be a New World.
Gandhi, Martin Luther King and many more made this committment and people followed...
Peace. Stop War.
Edited to make correction for somewhat wrong reference.
You would really expect "one" nation to be the "first" to disarm itself? With no guarantee, much less any realistic expectation, that the others would do the same? That would be irrational, insane, suicidal, and a dereliction of duty by whoever headed that country.
Again I say, wake up from your dream. Put forth a "rational, workable" plan for your utopian world. Just dreaming it won't make it happen. I'm saddened to say that you will find no such workable plan. For the nature of man is what it is, and there will always be the bad guys that will not follow nor adhere to the plan. They do not want your utopian world, they want to have "their" world. Where they are king. Where they run the show. Where they call the shots. Where they control everything in their kingdom.
Reality.
This is just why "we" are acting everywhere, not just dreaming, but seeking for peace and wealth of the whole humanity. Fortunately, this also cannot be stopped until humanity is eliminated  .
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by drirene
quote:
Originally posted by bozden
quote:
Originally posted by drirene
Bozden,
If war is not the way with the current Iraqi administration, the administration that tortures and lies, what is the way? They've already got wealth (or rather Saddam has it). How else can you possibly remove/disarm a ruler who is a threat to the world?
The statements above were talking about terrorist attacks and how people in US fear for their future. Thus my statements have nothing to do with Iraq.
I guess we've come full circle: terrorist attacks are ABOUT Iraq. And since I'm on the topic, they are also about North Korea, and every other place that a terrorist may live and operate.
And obviously you decide for that, like always been in the past (I have a long list of them if you want to hear - US always found a reason). Perhaps Turkey is also on your list because of non-willingnees to go into war.
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:23:22
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quote:
Are you that comfortable with taking the side of such obvious evil?
I don't think nobody here takes side of Saddam. It must be a "fatal" misunderstanding. |
Stop the WAR! |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:26:48
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quote:
Perhaps Turkey is also on your list because of non-willingnees to go into war.
Apparently Turkey suddenly is very willing.
After making our task much more difficult by opposing our intentions, and not even allowing overflight rights, the Turkish Ambassador just declared to Larry King on CNN that Turkey considers itself "part of the alliance to enforce the UN resolution" which serves as our basis for the military action.
A little late to be of any help to us.
A little troubling as to their true motives.
A lot more to worry about as they are poised to cross into Kurdistan without being part of the coalition.
Or could it be that now, when they can see the writing on the wall and don't fear Saddam any longer, they want to join the right side?
How many more are there who were sitting on the fence to wait until the Americans pulled the coals out of the fire for them once more? |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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Edited by - Alfred on 23 March 2003 22:30:27 |
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drirene
Junior Member
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:28:29
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quote:
And obviously you decide for that, like always been in the past (I have a long list of them if you want to hear - US always found a reason). Perhaps Turkey is also on your list because of non-willingnees to go into war.
Bozden,
How can you say that? Turkey is a long-time US friend and I think the US is sensitive to the problems Turkey has with it's economy and the Kurd problem, even though the Kurds are helping the US.
But you just answered a question I didn't ask: Part of the reason the US is hated is because the US is feared. That saddens me greatly, though I can understand your position. |
*Trubble* the Cat & Dr. Irene
http://drirene.com |
Edited by - drirene on 23 March 2003 22:30:06 |
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drirene
Junior Member
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:35:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
Perhaps Turkey is also on your list because of non-willingnees to go into war.
Apparently Turkey suddenly is very willing.
After making our task much more difficult by opposing our intentions, and not even allowing overflight rights, the Turkish Ambassador just declared to Larry King on CNN that Turkey considers itself "part of the alliance to enforce the UN resolution" which serves as our basis for the military action.
A little late to be of any help to us.
A little troubling as to their true motives.
A lot more to worry about as they are poised to cross into Kurdistan without being part of the coalition.
Or could it be that now, when they can see the writing on the wall and don't fear Saddam any longer, they want to join the right side?
How many more are there who were sitting on the fence to wait until the Americans pulled the coals out of the fire for them once more?
You are being too hard. Who can blame these people? Who in their right mind wants to create waves in unsafe spaces? And who isn't happy to join the "right" side when the going is easier. That's also human nature and part of what must be expected by nations who are not superpowers. |
*Trubble* the Cat & Dr. Irene
http://drirene.com |
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seahorse
Senior Member
USA
1075 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:35:20
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It troubles me to hear the venom in some of the opinions voiced in this thread. A vibrant community depends on having people with different opinions. I hope that we can all keep our emotions in check and agree to disagree.
To me the Snitz forums are about code. I hope that the different opinions voiced in this thread don't cause us to forget that it is the code that brought us all together in the first place.
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Ken
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Worldwide Partner Group
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:44:06
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Alfred I'm just watching it. You just forgot to mention the reasons:
1) Humeniterian reason (to keep refugees in a buffer area)
2) Kurdish Terrorist groups (it is nearing agreement with US)
US tried to pull Turkey into war by showing the possibility that they will allow a Kurdish State in North Iraq. This is something Turkey cannot allow (this is not my own opinion).
Turkey's Government totaly failed in the "bargains" with US. They should have said "sorry" from very start... US has always been a problem to Turkey, used Turkey but not supported when needed. I think this will lead into a new level of co-operation between these two countries.
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:45:30
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quote:
Originally posted by seahorse
It troubles me to hear the venom in some of the opinions voiced in this thread. A vibrant community depends on having people with different opinions. I hope that we can all keep our emotions in check and agree to disagree.
To me the Snitz forums are about code. I hope that the different opinions voiced in this thread don't cause us to forget that it is the code that brought us all together in the first place.
I'll second this :)
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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seven
Senior Member
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:53:00
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Also, don't forget this forum is called "Community Discussions (All other subjects)".
quote:
Originally posted by Doug G
quote:
Originally posted by seahorse
It troubles me to hear the venom in some of the opinions voiced in this thread. A vibrant community depends on having people with different opinions. I hope that we can all keep our emotions in check and agree to disagree.
To me the Snitz forums are about code. I hope that the different opinions voiced in this thread don't cause us to forget that it is the code that brought us all together in the first place.
I'll second this :)
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Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:54:25
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quote:
Originally posted by bozden
Alfred I'm just watching it. You just forgot to mention the reasons:
1) Humeniterian reason (to keep refugees in a buffer area)
2) Kurdish Terrorist groups (it is nearing agreement with US)
US tried to pull Turkey into war by showing the possibility that they will allow a Kurdish State in North Iraq. This is something Turkey cannot allow (this is not my own opinion).
Turkey's Government totaly failed in the "bargains" with US. They should have said "sorry" from very start... US has always been a problem to Turkey, used Turkey but not supported when needed. I think this will lead into a new level of co-operation between these two countries.
Sorry, but didn't Turkey want to move down to the oil fields?
So Turkey occupies northern Iraq for fear of terrorists? Is this not hypocritical? What evidence does Turkey have for occupying another country?
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Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 22:55:11
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quote:
Originally posted by drirene
quote:
And obviously you decide for that, like always been in the past (I have a long list of them if you want to hear - US always found a reason). Perhaps Turkey is also on your list because of non-willingnees to go into war.
Bozden,
How can you say that? Turkey is a long-time US friend and I think the US is sensitive to the problems Turkey has with it's economy and the Kurd problem, even though the Kurds are helping the US.
But you just answered a question I didn't ask: Part of the reason the US is hated is because the US is feared. That saddens me greatly, though I can understand your position.
I partially answered that above, but this is just another story. Let's leave this out of the scope of the discussion here.
It is not easy for both sides to analyse such issues in a scientific manner . I personally admire US for many reasons, but my main standing point is the dangers of "nationalism". This is next to religion...
But the reason is not the fear of course .
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 23:03:00
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quote:
Originally posted by drirene
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
Perhaps Turkey is also on your list because of non-willingnees to go into war.
Apparently Turkey suddenly is very willing.
After making our task much more difficult by opposing our intentions, and not even allowing overflight rights, the Turkish Ambassador just declared to Larry King on CNN that Turkey considers itself "part of the alliance to enforce the UN resolution" which serves as our basis for the military action.
A little late to be of any help to us.
A little troubling as to their true motives.
A lot more to worry about as they are poised to cross into Kurdistan without being part of the coalition.
Or could it be that now, when they can see the writing on the wall and don't fear Saddam any longer, they want to join the right side?
How many more are there who were sitting on the fence to wait until the Americans pulled the coals out of the fire for them once more?
You are being too hard. Who can blame these people? Who in their right mind wants to create waves in unsafe spaces? And who isn't happy to join the "right" side when the going is easier. That's also human nature and part of what must be expected by nations who are not superpowers.
Unfortunately many nationalists in Turkey see the country as follower of Ottoman Empire and a candidate super power of the future. I'm not a nationalist (knocking on the wood  ) but if we can have the possibility not being hit by our friends, IMO things around here will be much better.
But just to have the same understanding: Turkey only allowed flights over Turkey, nothing else. At the same time the decision in the council included the right to enter North Iraq if needed (two reasons above).
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 23:13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Heynow777
quote:
Originally posted by bozden
Alfred I'm just watching it. You just forgot to mention the reasons:
1) Humeniterian reason (to keep refugees in a buffer area)
2) Kurdish Terrorist groups (it is nearing agreement with US)
US tried to pull Turkey into war by showing the possibility that they will allow a Kurdish State in North Iraq. This is something Turkey cannot allow (this is not my own opinion).
Turkey's Government totaly failed in the "bargains" with US. They should have said "sorry" from very start... US has always been a problem to Turkey, used Turkey but not supported when needed. I think this will lead into a new level of co-operation between these two countries.
Sorry, but didn't Turkey want to move down to the oil fields?
So Turkey occupies northern Iraq for fear of terrorists? Is this not hypocritical? What evidence does Turkey have for occupying another country?
quote:
Sorry, but didn't Turkey want to move down to the oil fields?
Some nationalists have this "bad idea" but it is not the case this time. The main reason is to prevent that the oil fields are owned by a possible Kurdish State (allowed by US).
quote:
So Turkey occupies northern Iraq for fear of terrorists? Is this not hypocritical? What evidence does Turkey have for occupying another country?
As far as I know there were about 10.000 soldiers before two months, 7.000 joined them a month ago. The area is not fullt occupied. (As a sidenote: I'm against that presence). There are about 5.000 PKK/KADEK militans waiting for a gap in the boundry to enter Turkey to act (they have their reasons).
The problem is not easy to tell, I have to summerize 20 years of war in the country, the deaths of more than 30.000 people, ... And also the evidence that these Kurdish groups are fed by CIA/US  ...
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Reinsnitz
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
3545 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 23:38:13
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boz, I'd like to say that you and us don't realy need to be at odds ever.
we would love to have a peacefull planet... and we need people like yourself pushing for it to happen, this way the rest of us don't lose focus on the ultimate goal, but in the mean time, someone has to keep the people like Sadam under control.
It seems to me that both of us have a very important part to play in the world today. Very Important. |
Reinsnitz (Mike) |
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