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snerdley
New Member
USA
65 Posts |
 Posted - 23 March 2003 : 04:19:11
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Trying to reason with the peace-niks is futile. They cannot accept even the first truth.......... that there have always been, and that there are now, and that there always will be, evil men in the world. And that these evil men will have to be dealt with through the use of force. That's the only "way" they know and understand.
We gave this guy 12 years and 18 resolutions to do it the "peaceful" way. And that's still not enough for the peace-niks!
They don't get it. Really, they just simply do not get it.
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 04:20:50
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| <sarcasm> Besides . . . I cant drive as fast as I want to in Germany either. German cars arn't fast enough. </sarcasm> |
 Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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bjlt
Senior Member
1144 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 07:01:46
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Well I'm not here to discuss to war or not. Please also acknowledge that English is not my native, furthermore, words here are not chosen as careful as it's in a paper.
First all all, like what I said in the previous post, here's some of my basic opinions, if not facts.
everybody act/think based on his own interest, this is natural.
everybody is influnced by his culture/language/history/education/social status/religion/ and government propaganda and media.
There is propaganda in the free countries as well.
Media, even though the majority or major, might not be neutral, also they could be fooled.
In free countries there are freedom to speech, at least much more than that in autarchy nations, however, it doesn't mean no censorship from the government/inside a media, though it's done/dealt differnet with what's in an autarchy state. In general everyone can voice himself yet not all voices could be heard easily. Also refer to the first two statements one is influenced, he may have tendancy to choose/believe information from certain sources.
Media/propaganda in free countries do have freedom to speech and be more trust worthy while those from non-democracy countries are usually suspectable more or less. That's the advantage of media/propaganda in free countries besides the more budget , better equipment, and coverage they have. It means the propaganda/fake info or whatever the like brought out by those media, though might not be done intentionally, are spread, trusted more easily.
Sometimes there are no only method to archieve something, there might be several ways which are almost equally good. Also a proven good method might not fit in another situation.
People who believes that they are doing the right thing but actually not will do more harm then a pure devil sometimes.
International Laws are quite different, it's not like a national law in terms of effectiveness and enforcement.
Some of my general impressions on American people, might be influenced, and this does not go to the 2% there. Also my vocabulary is limited here:
kind, responsible, sympathizing ... good people indeed,
Proud of their country as what I also agree the US is really a nation of the people, by the people and for the people (of their nation).
simple minded, or naive which is the word used/heard out of the US most of the time, in comparison with poeple from the old continents, esp with people from non-democratic countries. This is not a criticism but rather a fact. I think it might due to that simpler relationship between people and the respect of the system (laws, etc) Those 2% are different however. just think they are lawyers in comparison with other people. This might not be a proper comparison but you can get the idea.
ignorant about other parts of the world. Sorry for the word but just like the jokes Americans make on themselves on their knowledge on American geographics. American is the strongest and might be a state with the best (yet not all is right) system, it's no wonder they don't care about the other parts of the world as other people care about the united states. Samething for some of the 2% people too on this one.
Then here're some of my opinions on the current event:
First of all I think Bush and his government are actually acting for the interests of the US, at least that's what they are tring to do, though it might not be the best choice or even a good choice (might or might not discuss if it's good later)
Bush and his collegues are also work for his/their own benefits. Don't take me wrong on this, that's how the system is run. We select a manager for the company, he acts for his own benefits, under laws and regulations, under supervision from the board/shareholders/public/media etc. Such a manager is better than a one merely work for the interest of the company. Profe is the difference of state run/private companies. Same goes with the government. Some private reasons might be campaign (for himself and his party), his contributors, his father. Campaign might be the major consideration among the private reasons, it's why politicians are born in democratic countries. Most of the time campaign activities in a highly democratic country like the US do indeed benefit the interests of the countrymen, while sometimes it's rather tactic and tachniques.
Yet I do believe they are tring to act for the general interest of the Americans basically. Well, American's interest sure is not always the interest of other people.
I don't think the action now is proper, the best choice, or the last choice. Take Simpson's case as an example, why he needed to compensate the family of his wife been killed while he's not judged guilty? I do think all Americans should think about it and make a comparison with the current war situation. It's a good example to partially illustrate why (people in) other countries do not like it, and it's a good example to show why war NOW is not a proper action and not a good choice for the American people.
Another question Americans should think is Isralie.
Another thing about terrorism. It's not good at all. Yet I don't agree only cowards do it. If there's no judge or (you feel) the judge is not justice and the one who spites you is 100 times stronger than all other people, what will you do? I don't think anyone will challege a duel. Don't take me wrong on this also, I don't support terrorism but it seems Americans don't know why so many people in other country don't like them.
Bottom line, who's the judge? if you strogest neighbor disclaim or act as he's the sole judge what will you feel? don't you feel terror and lose of your freedom?
American government/congress do not sign on many international treaties to protect "interests of Amercian people". Such activities in a long run it's not of best interests of the American people.
Again it's complicated and my input here is a rough scratch. it's limited by the language barrier as well, hopefully who reads it won't take me wrong.
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Edited by - bjlt on 23 March 2003 07:28:44 |
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Dynamix
Junior Member
Germany
205 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 09:54:07
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardKinser
You seem to think that a truly "free" country is one without any laws whatsoever where anyone and everyone can do whatever they want, whenever they want, without risk of punishment. Sorry, but I sure wouldn't want to live in a country like that, would you?
We also have laws, but here will no one be tortured and here every one can do that things, i decribed above.
quote:
Originally posted by RichardKinser
Oh, and since when does ruirib live in America? I believe he lives in Portugal (that's what is listed as his country in his profile). For example, I can drive as fast as I want and I can drink whatever I want and whereever I want and also I can see what I want on TV. Naked People are no Problem for German People. Here is it vise versa: we can see much naked People in TV, but no hard Horror-Movies. I even donīt like that kind of tutelage.
Sorry, didnīt see that  and his words sounded to me, that he lives in the USA.
And another time (and the last time!): Even if it sounds like I donīt like the USA at all, it is not that what it sound like! I like the USA and I havenīt nothing against the people. And especcially not agianst the people here in SNITZ, and I like the way we communicate and work together. My english is not the best and sometimes maybe I choose not the best words for that what I am thinking. I only want to describe what I and many people arround me, I talked to in the last days, thinking at the moment.
Itīs just a different position. Donīt feel attacked, if I judge hard over your government. Feel free to do the same with mine, because for me, itīs a GOOD thing to hear other positions. Itīs just a discussion, not a war, ok?! |
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Dynamix
Junior Member
Germany
205 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 09:55:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
<sarcasm> Besides . . . I cant drive as fast as I want to in Germany either. German cars arn't fast enough. </sarcasm>
 Ok. You won. |
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Dynamix
Junior Member
Germany
205 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 12:36:22
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Another (maybe interesting) detail:
I donīt know if it is the truth, but 5 minutes ago (18:22 in Germany) they told in German TV that the TV-Stations in the USA would not show the interviews with the captured soldiers which are now hostages and possible human shields against US-bombs. And the TV Stations would also not show the killed american soldiers without heads, hands and burned faces. That are horrible storrys and pictures which I donīt like to see, but they show them here in TV and tell always that the american Stations would be adviced by Rumsfeld himself not to show them.
If that is true, you know what american propaganda ist. If that is not true, I know what german propaganda is.
Has anybody see these pictures in the US? |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 12:49:09
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bjlt, in spite of your limited communication skills in English you are making some very good points, and they can be understood.
There is just one thing I can not find myself in agreement with - you write:quote:
Another thing about terrorism. It's not good at all. Yet I don't agree only cowards do it. If there's no judge or (you feel) the judge is not justice and the one who spites you is 100 times stronger than all other people, what will you do?
What you descibe may apply to partisan fighters but not to terrorists.
There is a vital difference between a Partisan, or underground fighter and a terrorist.
The partisan is fighting his superior enemy in the style he is able to, and he is bravely willing to give his life for his cause.
He does NOT aim to kill innocent, uninvolved people.
The terrorist, on the other hand is an indiscriminate killer of totally innocent people, and does not deserve respect or consideration from ANY human being, other than his mad co-terrorists or ingrained haters of the terrorized people. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 12:58:20
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quote:
Trying to reason with the peace-niks is futile.
The same could be said about war-niks :)
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 14:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dynamix
Another (maybe interesting) detail:
I donīt know if it is the truth, but 5 minutes ago (18:22 in Germany) they told in German TV that the TV-Stations in the USA would not show the interviews with the captured soldiers which are now hostages and possible human shields against US-bombs. And the TV Stations would also not show the killed american soldiers without heads, hands and burned faces. That are horrible storrys and pictures which I donīt like to see, but they show them here in TV and tell always that the american Stations would be adviced by Rumsfeld himself not to show them.
If that is true, you know what american propaganda ist. If that is not true, I know what german propaganda is.
Has anybody see these pictures in the US?
No, this is not shown in the US. This is Iraqi propaganda and very unfortunate. It has been reported the dead may have been executed and or tortured. This just shows what kind of criminals we are dealing with.
BTW, I don't think most Americans would like to view this video anyway. |
Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
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Dynamix
Junior Member
Germany
205 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 14:20:11
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| And again: in German TV (Channel PRO7) at 20:05 German Time, they told this time that George Bush himself has forbidden all american TV stations to show this horrible pictures and the captured soldiers. He was very angry about this pictures, because he said they would be not agree with the Genfer Conventions. I wonder about that, because he did not care himeself about that at Guantanamo. But that are "only" Non-Americans which are arrested... I ask you: WHY he is really angry? And here is what they told on some TV-Stations: He could get in trouble, because these Pictures could change the thinking of the majority in the USA. |
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Dynamix
Junior Member
Germany
205 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 14:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Heynow777
No, this is not shown in the US. This is Iraqi propaganda and very unfortunate. It has been reported the dead may have been executed and or tortured. This just shows what kind of criminals we are dealing with.
BTW, I don't think most Americans would like to view this video anyway.
But how could it be Iraqi Propaganda? The Interviews with the arrested Soldiers could really be Iraqi Propaganda, but the pictures of the dead soldiers where filmed by an US-Reporter-Team, they told here... |
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Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 14:31:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dynamix
And again: in German TV (Channel PRO7) at 20:05 German Time, they told this time that George Bush himself has forbidden all american TV stations to show this horrible pictures and the captured soldiers. He was very angry about this pictures, because he said they would be not agree with the Genfer Conventions. I wonder about that, because he did not care himeself about that at Guantanamo. But that are "only" Non-Americans which are arrested... I ask you: WHY he is really angry? And here is what they told on some TV-Stations: He could get in trouble, because these Pictures could change the thinking of the majority in the USA.
He is angry because they're being tortured and executed and paraded by criminals on Iraqi television. What happened at Guantanamo? they are living in camps and being fed. Do you really think they're both the same? is this just ignorance? or do you know something that I don't?
This could change US opinion, but that is not the reason. Those soldiers have families over here. |
Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
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Heynow
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 14:33:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Dynamix
quote:
Originally posted by Heynow777
No, this is not shown in the US. This is Iraqi propaganda and very unfortunate. It has been reported the dead may have been executed and or tortured. This just shows what kind of criminals we are dealing with.
BTW, I don't think most Americans would like to view this video anyway.
But how could it be Iraqi Propaganda? The Interviews with the arrested Soldiers could really be Iraqi Propaganda, but the pictures of the dead soldiers where filmed by an US-Reporter-Team, they told here...
If you had seen this report, then you should have seen an Iraqi flag on the microphone. I am having a little trouble understanding what your point is here. |
Political Forums:::Stay n Chat
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Rasco
Advanced Member
Germany
3192 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 15:14:40
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I don`t think the pictures of the allied hostages and dead should be shown on TV, but the same way around, Iraqi prisoners should be left out of television as well.
With all the propaganda on U.S., British, Iraqi and other television stations, who really knows, what`s true? Something in between (currently, Iraqi says something about over 25 allied soldiers dead and 1 fighter shut down, U.S. tells about 12 soldiers missing).
Stop war!
Rasco
Take Mr. Bush and Mr Hussein to a box ring and let them allone  |
German Snitz Forum
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 23 March 2003 : 15:20:57
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quote:
And again: in German TV (Channel PRO7) at 20:05 German Time, they told this time that George Bush himself has forbidden all american TV stations to show this horrible pictures and the captured soldiers. He was very angry about this pictures, because he said they would be not agree with the Genfer Conventions. I wonder about that, because he did not care himeself about that at Guantanamo. But that are "only" Non-Americans which are arrested... I ask you: WHY he is really angry? And here is what they told on some TV-Stations: He could get in trouble, because these Pictures could change the thinking of the majority in the USA.
Dynamix, it seems to me that despite your claim that you know the conditions in the U.S. very well you are gravely misjudging the nature of this country.
First of all, this is not a "dictatorial", or "police state" society and nobody, including the President of the United States, can "forbid" the media to show anything they feel like showing.
Your second error lies in the perception of the reasons that these pictures were not shown.
Our real concern is to prevent inflaming the people who have up to now shown shown great restraint.
We do not want to flame the same hatred in our population that the fanatics within Iraq are trying to use to their advantage.
Knowing the American people, pictures of this nature would surely achieve the opposite of what those animals - sorry, I love animals -... those subhumans, intended. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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