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SiSL
Average Member
Turkey
671 Posts |
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laser
Advanced Member
Australia
3859 Posts |
 Posted - 16 September 2005 : 16:28:45
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| CSS and "local time display" should be the highest priorities IMHO, closely followed by a few of the more popular MODs, all with on/off switches in case some people don't want them.< |
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Astralis
Senior Member
USA
1218 Posts |
Posted - 16 September 2005 : 18:53:00
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| Can you open it up to the community to help? If the forum isn't the best place, then maybe a wiki? FlexWiki is pretty cool (www.flexwiki.com). Or if the purpose is to limit it to just a few people, I'll understand.< |
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-gary
Development Team Member
406 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 13:17:36
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| CSS and time zones aren't even near the top of the list for some of us. If you ever want to know what problems a large board has with Snitz, I'd be happy to make a list.< |
KawiForums.com
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Astralis
Senior Member
USA
1218 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 14:31:59
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| I've been running several boards for the past few years and I didn't even set the timezone for myself. In all this time, I haven't heard a single complaint on the boards that I run that the timezone isn't accurate for the posters. For me it never was a priority and it appears my users don't care either. I'm not even sure they notice it.< |
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laser
Advanced Member
Australia
3859 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 16:32:11
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-gary, it's obvious all our lists are different. I would also consider my board to be large, but maybe that's just me.
I thought timezones were going to be part of the internationalisation for v.4, in fact it would be the only internationalisation feature I would bother using in v.4. Most other popular forums have this feature.< |
Edited by - laser on 17 September 2005 16:32:43 |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 16:42:09
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Some of you have been here long enough to know that these discussions are a bit pointless. There's never an agreement between the different people who reply. When we'll need the input of the community we'll ask for it. So avoid entering into disagreements among yourselves.
Let me make this clear: we do not object to you expression your opinions on what you would like to see happening with Snitz. The fact that someone asks for a feature does not mean it will be added, nor does it mean it will not. Just stating that disagreeing over this or that feature is pointless.< |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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Astralis
Senior Member
USA
1218 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 17:29:43
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quote:
Just stating that disagreeing over this or that feature is pointless.
Why is it pointless? Who determines the priority, the benefits and draw-backs, if it's not the community? The benefit of having a community is they can discuss and debate these issues instead of one person doing everything.
Or is it that the Snitz community is just a select few people? I can see the pros and cons to that. For example, the base code was made by one person without anyone's input.
But, I think a lot of people presume that this is a community that is open to developing together by sharing ideas and labor.
I think the flame wars happen when people don't agree. Perhaps a system that explains how it works will help. If people can see what resources are available, then when their ideas are shot down, they can see that majority rules and when that rules it's also based on what resources are available. If no one can code the new ideas then it's not going to happen.
Opening a window into this process can be beneficial for everyone.
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Edited by - Astralis on 17 September 2005 18:45:56 |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 18:51:50
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The features that will be included will be decided by the Dev Team, as it has always been. The members will use whatever info they deem fit, including their own experience with their forums and this one.
If everything every community member suggests were to be included, the feature list to be added would be endless. You can suggest what you want, but there will be a decision by the Dev Team, as to what will be included, as it always has been done.
We're not going to have a poll on what features will be included or not. So, if you feel there is something you like or need, great, leave the suggestion here. The Dev Team will decide what gets included and what doesn't.
We're talking of the base code. If something you need is not there, you can add it yourself, with or without the help of other community members. This community, however, was never about developing the base code in an effort that included people from outside of the Dev Team. Nothing in the years I have here (4) was ever like you described. Development was always made by the dev team, with the input of whoever wanted to share their opinions.< |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 20:13:55
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As a historical note, the first go-around of Snitz development didn't have a design team per-se. Mike threw up developer threads on the forum and anyone who wanted to participate or post code did so. This process got kind of out of control at times though, but it was a lot of fun for everyone (well, usually anyway  Mike spent a gazillion hours sorting things out!)
http://forum.snitz.com/old_forum/
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
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-gary
Development Team Member
406 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 21:23:06
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Those are some of the most close minded comments I've ever heard from any kind of project manager in my life. If the same people decide what same features will be in the same code, nothing changes. I'd hope your "dev team" in it's all knowing brilliance has a decent cross section of forum administration experience or this will be one huge waste of time. I really had high hopes for this, but with your "shut the hell up, we know best" comments, it makes me miss Huw's tact.
As for large, my forum signs up over 1000 members a month and hits 1000 posts per day often and over 700 every day. And that's not even a large forum compared to some. If you're going to go on a majority rules development mentality, then I guess that would mean spending a lot of time optimizing MS Access performance.< |
KawiForums.com
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AnonJr
Moderator
United States
5768 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 21:42:15
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One of the things I've learned over the years is that the larger the team on any type of project, the harder it is to get anything done. While I would love to have a big communal build-it, I understand that that wouldn't exactly work as planned. We saw that when this thread was first started.
When this thread was ressurected, I had wanted to mention that the desired action has been achieved: the Dev team is being put together and they will start on the next version.
I would love to be a part of that (hint hint). If I'm not, then I'm not. I think that once the dev team is put together there should be a thread started for everyone to make 1 post about what they want. No discussions over the merits/lack of of the various features/points etc. That way the dev team gets our input, and it doesn't turn into a big "Feature X Forever" vs. "Feature X Must Die" arguement.
As mentioned, the spirit of this fourm is that if there is something missing, you can always add it. They are not being close minded, just practical.
I've stated what I would like, and I agree with some, and disagree with others. Arguing my position with the pretext of the next version is counter-productive.
I'm done, and by and large I will now "shut the hell up".< |
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Davio
Development Team Member
Jamaica
12217 Posts |
Posted - 17 September 2005 : 22:02:39
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Interesting the way this is going.
Rui is not saying you should "shut the hell up" as you so nicely put it. We read the comments of the members and hear what they want. So your desires as to what you want in the next version or future versions of the Snitz Forums is not ignored.
But as Rui said, the final decisions come down to the admins and developers as to what goes into the next version. The admins and developers come from the same community you are apart of. They use the same forum you are using. They have similar desires to what you all want. We also have the original goal of why the Snitz Forums was created and to which users we want to cater for. So the decisions is based off of all that, combined.
Everyone wants a new feature, everyone wants more speed, everyone wants a new redesign, everyone wants to move with the latest technology. And the developers will try to satisfy the majority of members, but not everyone will be happy with every release. We have already lost members who thought we didn't compare to the other latest cutting forums out there. We can't make everyone happy, but hopefully we can make the majority.
Continue to voice what you would like to see in future versions, while at the same time, don't shoot down anyone else's wish list. We all got our desires for this forum. < |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 18 September 2005 : 04:17:08
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quote:
Originally posted by -gary
Those are some of the most close minded comments I've ever heard from any kind of project manager in my life. If the same people decide what same features will be in the same code, nothing changes. I'd hope your "dev team" in it's all knowing brilliance has a decent cross section of forum administration experience or this will be one huge waste of time. I really had high hopes for this, but with your "shut the hell up, we know best" comments, it makes me miss Huw's tact.
As for large, my forum signs up over 1000 members a month and hits 1000 posts per day often and over 700 every day. And that's not even a large forum compared to some. If you're going to go on a majority rules development mentality, then I guess that would mean spending a lot of time optimizing MS Access performance.
Do you have some reading difficulty, or was it just a "gosh, I have a big forum, so I know better" attitude that made you assume something without taking the time to actually read what was written? Care to point me the exact part of my writing where I told people to "shut the hell up"?! The only thing I wrote was that it was pointless for members to enter into arguments about what should go into the code and what should not. I specifically wrote that we value the member's opinions and I encouraged them to voice them. It would be stupid to do otherwise.
I have participated in many development projects, some small, some large. One of the most basic things I have learned, in all of my lack of brilliance, was that any software application is as good as it satisfies its users needs, and the best way to satisfy its users needs is to know those needs, is to listen to the users. I would never tell the users to shut up, cause that would be the way to lose that extremely valuable input.
I've watched too many of these discussions and I know how they ended. I don't intend to have that repeated, and I won't!
Two final thoughts:
1. We have been rebuilding our teams, both the moderators team and the development team. Why would we be doing that if things were to remain as they were recently? And guess where the members for those teams come from?
2. If you are really interested in having a contribution, and have the forum code change in a way meaningful to your own needs, it would be better to have those needs voiced. And you know what? We're ready and willing to listen, and we know that listening to you and all the other users will provide us with with a wealth of suggestions that can enable us to lead Snitz code development in a way that makes it satisfy its users needs.< |
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Wish List For Snitz Forum
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