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dabugster
Junior Member
USA
168 Posts |
 Posted - 22 July 2005 : 17:17:03
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quote:
Originally posted by HuwR
I was appaled at the percentage that required extensive twiddling to get working, I don't expect everything I download to be perfect, far from it, just that there seemed to be a lot more than I would normally expect.
I still don't think we should install them as part of a base snitz, but maybe we should have some kind of seal of approval that a MOD works with all db's and that the install instructions do at least reflect the steps required to succesfully instal the mod.
I whole heartedly agree!
No one is saying put these mods in as base code, just cause i want something in there does not mean everyone does, but to go back to my first post in this thread, have someone okay them and work the bugs out.
but maybe we should have some kind of seal of approval that a MOD works with all db's and that the install instructions do at least reflect the steps required to succesfully instal the mod
That is the bottom line in my eyes. Someone should go though and make sure the MOD does what it is supossed to and that most likely a novice would be able to understand it. There doesn't even need to be some special team that has more work put on there plate than is already there. In your spare time, if you see that, let's say for instance, the recently seen mod has an instruction, or whatever, in it that can be misleading. Now of course that is a broad statement, but try to remember when you first started out and keep thet in mind. Then maybe go in and explain it a little more specific and at the same time basic.
And as for the DB stuff .... i have said it a hundred times, i have made so many fatal mistakes messing with my DB that i am almost reluctent to mess with it no matter what. I know i know .... i can hear everyone now .... back it up first. I do .... NOW! LOL but still .... if a MOD is going to drop a table ... maybe it should be put in the read me what all is going to do and what all it can possible affect.
Like i said before, i am not really that advanced in ASPing (How many emails have i sent you Huw? LOL) but maybe thats what some of the more advanced, regular members here should remember ... at one time you didn't know what response.write " <table border=""0"" cellspacing=""0"" cellpadding=""0"" align=""center"" width=""100%"">" & VBNewLine & _ was supossed to do.
The more bugs that get worked out before someone installs a MOD, the less questions, double posts and confusion there will be here.
Now i have four cents in this i guess!
LOL
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20584 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2005 : 17:54:27
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quote:
I'm pessimistic about having a group review mods and giving it an approval. The attendance and participation here is not what it used to be. But I'm always willing to give something a try.
I wasn't thinking of a particular group, something more along dabugsters thinking, say a new, possibly moderated forum where mods can be posted for review, anyone interested could then download it and try an install and report back on whether it worked by following the instructions (with the exception of line number which may change) and what DB they tested it against.< |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2005 : 19:53:54
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| There are things worse than having to twiddle the code to get it working. I have seen code where basic stuff like closing and releasing recordsets and DB connections were not done. And stuff like that can bring serious problems to a server.< |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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dabugster
Junior Member
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2005 : 22:11:39
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quote:
Originally posted by ruirib
There are things worse than having to twiddle the code to get it working. I have seen code where basic stuff like closing and releasing recordsets and DB connections were not done. And stuff like that can bring serious problems to a server.
I think that was what was trying to be avoided here ... if twiddling was all the draw back was then that would be cool ... actual damage or the idea that this is supossed to do something and yet it doesn't, seems to be the major problem that we are talking about.
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Classicmotorcycling
Development Team Leader
Australia
2084 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2005 : 02:27:30
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I have seen quite a few mods put up by people who have made the function for their particular forum and someone has asked for it, so they released it to the best of their ability and it would stop MODs from being released if they need to go through what you say Huwr.
People would sooner not want the hassle and tell whoever wants a copy that they can not, and that would stop MODs from being shared. I know I have been re-coding some MODs to get them going for my needs, but it was easy to adjust the MODs to my needs and I have only given a few MODs out like to certian sites, like www.sportsfish.com.au and will not release them to others as I do not want to re-write documentation as most users do not follow it anyway. I also write documentation for a living and don't have time or feel like it, when I am not getting paid for it.
There are hardly any MODs being released now anyway, and the suggestion you are making would reduce the ammount further. If people can not install the MODs in their current state, then they have the Help: MOD Implementation area to ask about ways to install it. The main issue is when users have problems installing the MODs, they only say what part (not even half) of the problem is and not what it actually is, plus they did not read what intall doco that was with it anyway.
Then you get the users that demand you install it for them (and I am sure that you have seen it here) all because they did not read it properly or they do not know what they are doing. There is also the issue when a MOD id made, it is made to suit the current set-up of the forum of the user who wrote the MOD. I know I do not go and install a fresh copy of the forum when I create a MOD or know what others have MODs have been installed in the forums of others, thu the line numbers do not work.
The best MOD I have seen for doco is the Active Users by Nathan. It gave rough line numbers, but also gave code from around that area. I may of included Red1 in that, but he took all his MODs down.
My Aussie 2 cents worth.
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David Greening |
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Etymon
Advanced Member
United States
2385 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2005 : 02:45:18
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RichardKinser, Huwr, and others, in the early days, wrote some straightforward MODs with little to no commentary in the help files, which worked perfectly fine and were easy to follow. So, I agree with Huwr that MODs don't have to have commentary to be effective. History has proven Huwr's point.
However, I also agree with others, concerning their desires to learn how the MOD works.
Something to complement a non-teaching MOD as an ADD-ON could be a commentary or an article written by another to be released as a MOD in conjunction with that MOD. Think of it as an extended help file. Some like to code, some like to teach.
Honestly, I can write a MOD but have little to no idea how it REALLY works in the background. I can't fault anyone for not desiring to document a MOD.
For the popular MODs to be added to the base code, perhaps a bundled MOD can be created as stand-alone MOD, which would be popular MODs bundled together as a MOD of its own. This MOD could also be created with an admin panel to enable and disable certain MODs within that MOD.
Huwr's idea of an additional forum added to preview MODs would be the proper step before appointing an official panel. If the forum panned out with delightful participation, then from there a panel could be developed.
As a preventative measure from confusion on SnitzBitz, it would be helpful if a MOD had expanded ratings. Categories such as documentation, installation, usefulness, bugs, errors, completeness, newbie-friendly, etc. that other members could vote on would help downloaders determine if the MOD is what they are able to deal with at the moment. The quality of each vote is subjective according to experience and expertese, of course, but it's better than nothing at all.
I do wish Snitz had a "layman's" subgroup, something to the effect of a "MOD Builder's Club" apart from an official review panel. I think that would be fun as well as educational.
Cheers,
Etymon
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Edited by - Etymon on 23 July 2005 02:53:38 |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2005 : 05:58:25
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I think mod releasing is a serious stuff. Although I'm one of the most active guys around here I never released a mod (only two or three small things), because of the responsability that entails, IMO. Releasing a mod implies thorough testing before the release, implies assurances on the code being "safe" from creating problems to a forum, implies willingness and availability for supporting people who decide to install the mods.
There are users who have built a capital of trust regarding the mods they develop. We're still profiting from the earlier work by Richard and Huw, Nathan built a thoroughly documented mod available for 3.3.x and 3.4.x, Davio is particularly careful with his instructions, and Nikkol raised the standard to a very high level with her UserGroups mod, documentation and other wise. Mods from users with this background should be seen as reliable and trustworthy, though when we're talking about code testing is mandatory and with such a diversity of environments as the thousands of Snitz forums installed, problems msy appear when no one expects them.
This doesn't mean that mods from other users are to be disregarded or labeled as unsafe. We could probably try to setup a evaluation panel, though I'm not even sure that could be very effective due to the high number of code changes in use for the most varied purposes.
Users should be careful when installing mods from people who don't come here and give support any longer, unless the mods are well established as safe and realiable (as the Active Users, PM, Avatar, UserGroups, Poll mods are - an exclusion from this group doesn't mean the mods aren't safe or unreliable, just that I do not have the experience with them to classify them as such, exception made to IPGate which I have installed and had no problems with, either).
All in all, mod installing is always a risk. It is up to the users to decide which mods they should trust.< |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
Edited by - ruirib on 23 July 2005 06:00:01 |
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MarcelG
Retired Support Moderator
Netherlands
2625 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2005 : 08:35:21
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I'm certainly willing to help out on the documenting/reviewing part.
So, if you want to have your mod tested on Access ; I'm game! I could even provide extended documentation if necessary.
For MySQL and SQL, I cannot help you at the moment ... not yet.< |
portfolio - linkshrinker - oxle - twitter |
Edited by - MarcelG on 23 July 2005 08:35:48 |
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Panhandler
Average Member
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2005 : 09:48:22
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quote:
Originally posted by ruirib
There are things worse than having to twiddle the code to get it working. I have seen code where basic stuff like closing and releasing recordsets and DB connections were not done. And stuff like that can bring serious problems to a server.
Review and rate the mods.
Similar to SnitzBitz ratings but not by users.
Only Snitz team members can review mod.
Mod review not "required".
Rate like: - Approved
- Approved - needs works
- Needs Work
- Danger-Warning
Keep it simple.< |
"5-in-1 Snitz Common Expansion Pack" - five popular mods packaged for easy install
". . .on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam. . ."
HarborClassifieds
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MarcelG
Retired Support Moderator
Netherlands
2625 Posts |
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Da_Stimulator
DEV Team Forum Moderator
USA
3373 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2005 : 13:16:15
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Perhaps instead of sitting in an idle development state, Snitz should concentrate not on bashing mod authors, but streamlining and improving the existing code using their skills to implement the things that the MODS do.
As davio said, the majority of MODS released are written by amateurs, you can't get professional work from an amateur, can you? sometimes... but more often than not you have to fix, or tweak something. You cant make everything 100% compatible with all servers, all databases, all platforms, all browsers, and all people. You have to compromise what you need and what you don't.< |
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Davio
Development Team Member
Jamaica
12217 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2005 : 14:57:41
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quote:
Perhaps instead of sitting in an idle development state, Snitz should concentrate not on bashing mod authors, but streamlining and improving the existing code using their skills to implement the things that the MODS do.
Here here!! Developers getting restless. < |
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cladon
Junior Member
Belgium
110 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2005 : 15:15:19
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| Mostly it are the same mods always installed. Why don't we start a poll to get a list of base mods to install into the base code.< |
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MarcelG
Retired Support Moderator
Netherlands
2625 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2005 : 15:20:32
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I agree with Cladon!
(And, as the question is about a poll, I think we can assume that Polls should be in there most certainly)< |
portfolio - linkshrinker - oxle - twitter |
Edited by - MarcelG on 24 July 2005 15:20:50 |
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MarkJH
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1722 Posts |
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Rant about MODS
