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z-man
Starting Member
Netherlands
41 Posts |
 Posted - 10 May 2001 : 16:32:32
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I agree, I am currently working on several projects where several usergroups should could make a great difference. I think this one of the greatest disadvantages of Snitz now (and **** it is such a great product). I hope the development team, will put their effort to establish this. When this feature is achieved, Snitz is unbeatable.
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Reinsnitz
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
3545 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2001 : 17:26:19
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what realy needs to happen is a fundamental change in the security structure of the forums.
To Groups. A member by default will be a member of the default group that has default access to what the default group is allowed to see. Weather that be a calendar all forums or just a single forum.
A member can be made a member of multiple groups that can be given different permissions. The member ultimately ends up with the access rights of the most leaniant group that they are in.
So somoene who is a member of the Admin group and the default group has all the rights of an admin. The member who is part of the Global Moderators group and the Development Team Group gets the rights of the Global Moderators and perhaps the email updates of the Development Group, etc...
this can be propogated throught the code and be used to do just about anything... but it is a fundamental change that would literaly take this product to the next level.
Reinsnitz (Mike)
><)))'> Need a Mod?
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,..." Matthew 28:19a |
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XavierSlater
Junior Member
United Kingdom
137 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2001 : 19:48:49
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Mike is right. It redoes the security and access routines, more in tune, for example, of an NT userbase, and defining which users have access to which resources, and part of which workgroups.
I also agree that for larger userbases of Snitz, it is essential. If you are lucky enough to have 500+ users, being able to manage then in groups (or in the case of online gaming "Clans"), it can make the entire process a LOT faster to administrate, thereby providing better support, and better customer service to your userbase.
I appreciate I am no programmer, and its a fundamental revamp.
Thats my tuppence.
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Morpheus73
Average Member
Denmark
597 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2001 : 03:39:25
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Finally this discussion is going somewhere! 
Yes, I agree also that there should be independant administration/moderation options for each level of groups...my exam0ple of use...
I (teacher) am going to use this in our schooldistrict. We have one server and one database available. However we are 5 schools with 750 students in each who all want´s their own homepage (based on the portal mod) this means that the different group levels and thier sub groups (teacher´s, student, schoolboard a.s.o. should be able to be the default groups for each of the schools, so that when "members", "events", "news", "discussionboard" is called it only shows the results from their individual school. also moderators should only have moderation right´s to the groups and subgroups they are allowed to, whilst globaladmin or global moderators should have access to post in all 5 schoolsboards.
also the 5 schools have different school colors, that they want their homepage to appear in, so color settings a.s.o. should be able to be set from a sub-level administratorpanel?
Also there is the issue of "open" groups, that people are able to sign up for without no further due, and then there should be "admin validated groups", where user has to wait untill he´s validated by admin/moderator untill he is assigned
I realize that this is a major project. Will have to wait till the next multilangual SR is released, or should we stall it and implement this in next release too? (groups are great for multilanguage, since you can control language from them too)
mph73
Morpheus73
Edited by - morpheus73 on 11 May 2001 03:41:17 |
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z-man
Starting Member
Netherlands
41 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2001 : 04:07:05
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User groups will decrease the maintenance of a forum. For webmasters this is very interesting. User groups should be in the next release of Snitz Forums, together with multi-language functionality. I you can imagine what you can do with different type of user groups!! Every forum could support different kind of user groups. And when you think of a commercial version of Snitz.... I would encourage the development team to implement this in the next release of Snitz, version 4?!?
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davemaxwell
Access 2000 Support Moderator
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2001 : 07:33:49
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quote:
User groups will decrease the maintenance of a forum. For webmasters this is very interesting. User groups should be in the next release of Snitz Forums, together with multi-language functionality. I you can imagine what you can do with different type of user groups!! Every forum could support different kind of user groups. And when you think of a commercial version of Snitz.... I would encourage the development team to implement this in the next release of Snitz, version 4?!?
User Groups is an important thing to work on, but it is in no way a minor change. It will require a total revamp of security functions (like Mike said) and all any page which deals with any kinds of permissions will need to be changed. The next versions will be internationalization(a HUGE undertaking) and the CSS Support(also a HUGE undertaking). Once those are done, THEN we can look at incorporating user groups into the fold.
It will get done eventually, but it's a matter of when....
Dave Maxwell
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Proud to be a "World Class" Knucklehead |
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Morpheus73
Average Member
Denmark
597 Posts |
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davemaxwell
Access 2000 Support Moderator
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2001 : 12:22:51
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quote:
hmmm...hasn´t JohnMiller done much of the work?...tjeck out his "usergroups" mod on...
http://www.johnmiller2004.com/snitz/mods.php?action=moreinfo&id=15
has anyone succesfully adapted this mod?...I´d like to see what it does *LIVE*
mph73
Morpheus73
He had done part of it for version 3. It only allowed a member to be part of one group at a time, but it worked pretty well from what I remember. I had started to look at it as a basis for starting to adapt it for multiple groups and for the latest version, but I decided to put it aside until the versions settled down, then I got into subscriptions and moderation.
Dave Maxwell
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Proud to be a "World Class" Knucklehead |
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Ben SniffenGlue
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2001 : 16:21:21
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Okay guys, I have not had the time to read all these posts, but it appears that no one has developed a user groups mod. Funny thing is, I started working on one the other day. This will be for my Counter-Strike clan's website. I ran into the problem of wanting each user to have a personal calendar and access to the clan calendar, plus having parts of the clan calendar public. My intention is to have a moderator post our matches on the clan calendar. This would span over to the users that are within the clan. They would then choose (like a poll), using a radio button, if they were avaible for the match or not. Then an automatic roster would be generated with the players able to play the match. The moderator (our match coordinator) would then select the players he wanted. The players would receive a private message as well as an email.
So, I noticed that the user groups did not exist. I have been running around here all day searching or one and could find none. Then I stumbled across this post. At this point I have the database structure almost complete. I am breaking it up for now. Of course this is for my needs and I would be happy to share once I get a beta ready. Time on this, no idea. I have yet to search through all the code and see exactly what is invovled. Plus, after doing this 10 hours a day for a job, that is the last thing I want to do when I get home. I may be a code geek, but I do have a social life  . I will also use a bitwise operations, so the whole forum will probably change.
Any questions, please ask. Any suggestions, please provide. Later my brothers and sisters.
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Morpheus73
Average Member
Denmark
597 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2001 : 16:46:44
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quote:
Okay guys, I have not had the time to read all these posts, but it appears that no one has developed a user groups mod. Funny thing is, I started working on one the other day. This will be for my Counter-Strike clan's website. I ran into the problem of wanting each user to have a personal calendar and access to the clan calendar, plus having parts of the clan calendar public. My intention is to have a moderator post our matches on the clan calendar. This would span over to the users that are within the clan. They would then choose (like a poll), using a radio button, if they were avaible for the match or not. Then an automatic roster would be generated with the players able to play the match. The moderator (our match coordinator) would then select the players he wanted. The players would receive a private message as well as an email.
So, I noticed that the user groups did not exist. I have been running around here all day searching or one and could find none. Then I stumbled across this post. At this point I have the database structure almost complete. I am breaking it up for now. Of course this is for my needs and I would be happy to share once I get a beta ready. Time on this, no idea. I have yet to search through all the code and see exactly what is invovled. Plus, after doing this 10 hours a day for a job, that is the last thing I want to do when I get home. I may be a code geek, but I do have a social life . I will also use a bitwise operations, so the whole forum will probably change.
Any questions, please ask. Any suggestions, please provide. Later my brothers and sisters.
Very nice, but the final usergroup system should be more depthgoing than just groups for the calendar - admin/moderator oprionts should be able to be changed throughout the subcats of the board + more...
Temporary mods like yours and johns are of course very welcome, but I think that for the next SR after the multilangual SR, usergroups should be in focus.
mph73
Morpheus73 - morpheus73@hotmail.com |
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Ben SniffenGlue
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2001 : 11:33:34
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Of course this will start off very simple, but with time it will expand to many options. Thus the reason for a bitwise system. A user might have admin rights to a certain category and only posting privilages to another. I was just simply stating my reasons for initial idea generation. I never do anything half ass  . Currently, just to get the system running for my "project" I will have an add on in addition to the admin, moderator, and member. I think you guys have a wrong impression of what I am actually trying to do. I will try (big word here) and give each user rights to certain areas. If you want, it could go as deep as whether they can use smilies or not. I thought this would be very beneifical to giving html tag rights, etc.
So thus, the each user will have the ability to be part of more than one group, etc. Of course, there will be default rights and then admins would have to approve/give rights to users. The depth of the rights is questionable. If you wanted, you could give rights to everything on this forum. Nothing more than putting a function within the code and then have a table within the database containing rights level for certain items.
At my current job, there are 3 differnt variables that contain nothing more than these rights. ASP is limited to a number that is not large enough, so we have to split it up. These variables control what content the user sees, which spans 1000+ pages. Yes, it is a headache, but we have groups set-up where you assign that user to a group and he/she gains those rights. Once in a while, a user needs "special" access to a page. They do not qualify for the full group privilages, so we much go in and select that page and turn it "on" for them. We are dealing with sensitive information.
I am out. I hope this answered you question Morpheus. If not, state it another way or something. Or learn asp... lol.
BTW - The user will have no control over what rights that get. That is just a bad idea. In my opinion. A major loop hole. The admin has to approve it anyhow, so why not just have the admin set their user privilages.
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Morpheus73
Average Member
Denmark
597 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2001 : 14:43:46
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Touché - I eat my words!
Though I still think user should be able to sign up for certain groups on registration - thus in order for the displaycontent/portal mods, so that they get the topics they subscribe for a.s.o. on the mainpage - also running large boards with subforums (several sites one DB) at leat the moderators of these subsites, should be able to manage users and groups?
mph73
Morpheus73 - morpheus73@hotmail.com |
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Ben SniffenGlue
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2001 : 15:21:32
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AHHHHHH... I see your point much clearer now. Yes, this makes sense totally. So for instance you are running several message forums and you want users that sign up for mp3 porn to only see that forum and not the "I Love Duke" forum... Well, that could be carried through with another flag. So... you have a flag telling which forums they belong to and then the security ones. Yes, you make life difficult. I will have to think on this a bit. Of the best ways around it. Of course, most of that could be automated. Next you will want the users to be able to move everything around if they wish <<-- just opened a whole new can of worms -- and yes, I have pondered this option. At a later date perhaps. I will get back to when I get time to sit down and look at the problem. There are three ways that come to mind right now, so yeah... I will see about this.
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Morpheus73
Average Member
Denmark
597 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2001 : 16:22:42
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quote:
AHHHHHH... I see your point much clearer now. Yes, this makes sense totally. So for instance you are running several message forums and you want users that sign up for mp3 porn to only see that forum and not the "I Love Duke" forum... Well, that could be carried through with another flag. So... you have a flag telling which forums they belong to and then the security ones. Yes, you make life difficult. I will have to think on this a bit. Of the best ways around it. Of course, most of that could be automated. Next you will want the users to be able to move everything around if they wish <<-- just opened a whole new can of worms -- and yes, I have pondered this option. At a later date perhaps. I will get back to when I get time to sit down and look at the problem. There are three ways that come to mind right now, so yeah... I will see about this.
and there should be sublevel of groups...INstead of the mp3porn example, I´ll describe what I want to use it for:
in our kommune (US:County), we have four different schools, who all need their own version of the portal mod, but with the same DB!; when a user goes to their shools http, they are displayed with their schools frontpage, and when they enter the forum or list members, they only see the forums/subforums and members of their school. However they should be able to choose an option "show all county students", after which they get acces to list all members of the county, and also be able to see/post to discussions that are a level up from their own school. also admin/moderators of the individual school should be able to make settings for that school only while countyadmin should be able to set global settings.
Furthermore each school should be able to have subclasses of users with different preferences, like "teacher", "student" "parent", and sub to that the classes they attend/subjects they teach. -
hmmmm.... complicates a whole lot, doesn´t it? - it was that system of sub-sub-sub-sub usergroups with different levels of admins/moderators, that I think would require basic changes of forum code....but if you can do this as a mod, I´ll consider you THE MAN!
mph73
Morpheus73 - morpheus73@hotmail.com |
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Ben SniffenGlue
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2001 : 17:08:19
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Totally understand what you are saying dood. The problem with what you want and what I want to do is beyond a mode. The whole forum will have to be altered. I would have to insert some lines within the existing code to check for access. I am thinking there might be a way around that though, but I cannot say yes or no at the moment. My development box at work is down, so I will have to get up and running before I can hit it.
The scheme that I was using for security goes as follows. This is just an example. It uses bitwise so bare with me for a moment.
Page 1 = 0001
Page 2 = 0010
Page 3 = 0100
Page 4 = 1000
If a user has rights 0101 they have access to page 1 and 3. This would be stored in an interger though. So their permission would show up in the database as 5. Make sense. You intergers grow quickly, but you can have several different variables. This might have to span 3 variables depending on the amount of restrictions.
So in your example.
A School Board (or whatever)/countyadmin would have a 15 (1111).
A teacher might have a 7 (0111)
etc.
Get the idea? You can take farthur though. The easiest off the top of my head would be to place each forum with a number. Say the frist 3 or however many you have. This sounds like it would be set from the opening page from which the student enters. Then they log in. Perhaps they have access to only two schools (for examples sake). Thus they might only have 1's in the first two place holders. Make sense? This scheme is extremely powerful, and very quick.
I will look at it some more and see exactly what I will need to do. I really don't think "mod" could be made for it, but you would have to alter the default.asp pretty extensively. I haven't dove that deep into Snitz code, so it might be a while before i see the extent of changes. There seems to be some "loose" spots in their code (not trying to dog you guys, I give my thumbs up all the way up). But every programmer has a style that they follow and my is vastly different from theirs. This is not saying I am right and they are wrong...
Until next time, latez
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