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sr_erick
Senior Member
USA
1318 Posts |
 Posted - 07 August 2004 : 11:38:57
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| I gave firefox a try and it isn't my style. I'm an IE guy. Everything I want to do works with it just fine. I even tried Maxthon (MyIE2) and I liked it, but not as much as plain old IE. It seemed bulky and I just missed the IE interface. |
Erick
Snowmobile Fanatics
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2004 : 14:50:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
I just read the HTML. 
Ah, so your favorite browser is Notepad? 
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2004 : 16:25:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug G
Ah, so your favorite browser is Notepad?
cmd.exe |
 Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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stuF
Average Member
United Kingdom
561 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2004 : 17:19:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
What makes the W3C standard any more valid than the microsoft standard eh?
Well. Microsoft standards arent very standardised, its whatevers works with thier software goes. W3C stanards are a genuine attempt for a user focused organisation to create a true set of standards upon which many different organisations can create browser software.
Also, the point that most websites are 'designed for IE' is a myth. My websites, and a lot of other peoples i know are designed with a standards compliant browser for testing (FF/MZ/NS) and then i add CSS hacks and different things to make it work in Internet explorer.
There is a huge catalogue of things internet explorer does which are just plain wrong. Things like the broken box model, the double margin bug, the list is endless.
The sooner the average joe, or at least their network admins start leaving IE for something better, the sooner M$ will be forced into making a decent browser which i can feel safe using to do online banking, and run on my own computer withuoy feel of being hit with masses of adware and spyware.
Hell, in recent times, even M$ have been advising people not to use IE as it has severe security implications.
Having a browser so deeply rooted in the workings of an operating system is a fundamental error on the part of microsoft, and the sooner it dumps IE from the OS package the better.
My browser prefernece list: Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape, Opera, IE.
Oh, and a great feature of firefox, I can run it from an external memory device on a computer withuot it installed, meaning i need no longer endure uaing IE at work or Uni! |
http://36-degrees.co.uk |
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2004 : 18:17:27
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I am well aware of all Internet Explorers "crimes" stuF, and I am a firefox user/supporter if you didn't see my first post above.
I'm just saying that the Microsoft is just as, if not moreso, qualified to control what is standard on the web than the W3C. Whether they do it or not isn't the point. The point is they are qualified to do it.
I don't see the W3C putting out a reference brwoser to show their standard. (They do have a browser, Amaya, but it seems to be farter removed from their standard than even IE) |
Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2004 : 18:25:21
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Is there some hard evidence showing just how much more other browsers are in W3C compliance than IE?
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 07 August 2004 : 18:36:44
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| There are test suites provided by the W3Cs and others for testing browsers for compliance. Every once in a while I come across a table of yes/no on different browsers where they passed and where they failed. I'll see if I can dig one up. |
Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20584 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2004 : 03:52:14
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from those you can't say IE is any more or less compliant than firefox, they both have areas where they fail.
As a web author, I have used all the browsers, and have IE,Firefox and Opera currently installed for testing. While firefox is an amazing browser for such a young version it still has some basic problems with it's renderring, so will not yet replace IE as my prefered browser of choice, but it is getting very close, just need them to fix a couple of bugs to do with table renderring and I will probably change over.
There have been some major security bugs in Firefox so don't use it under the false assumption that it is safe. As it becomes more and more popular the number of serious/security bugs will increase. |
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2004 : 04:08:59
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There have been more security problems in Firefox than IE in the last couple months. The only reason its more safe right now its that its not targeted yet. As it becomes more popular its sure to be targeted more.
You can say Firefox is more compliant than IE because it fails in far fewer areas than does IE. Compliance is NOT an all or nothing term.
I have not had any problems with table rendering in Firefox, could you give me an example of a problem you have had Huwr?
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Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20584 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2004 : 05:59:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
There have been more security problems in Firefox than IE in the last couple months. The only reason its more safe right now its that its not targeted yet. As it becomes more popular its sure to be targeted more.
That is what I said.
quote:
You can say Firefox is more compliant than IE because it fails in far fewer areas than does IE. Compliance is NOT an all or nothing term.
Not really, if you examine the items it fails in the CSS tests, it predominantly only fails for one reason and that is it doesn't support the inherited attribute of the styles, pretty much all it's failures are due to this.
quote:
I have not had any problems with table rendering in Firefox, could you give me an example of a problem you have had Huwr?
I will dig out the images if I can, but basically it is having problems rendering some fairly basic tables which contain href links, for example I have a table which is used as a page nav, so the table is dynamically generated so it looks something like
< 1 2 3 4 >
in the above example a 6 column single row table is created, the source of which has been validated and is correct according to CSS, for some bizarre reason when you view the table in Firefox you get one of two results (neither of which are correct, or match the html source)
1) the table looks like this
1 < 2 3 4 >
(first two columns are reversed ????)
or 2) like this..
<
1 2 3 4 >
(first column has 2 rows ?????)
I may be able to give you a link later today so you can see for yourself.
I am in no way dishing Firefox as a browser, it is certainly the best competition to IE there has ever been and has surprisingly few quirks for such a new browser. |
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2004 : 06:16:47
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Umm, if you have any anchors in the page before the table make sure they are closed properly.
This: <a name="anchor"/> is invalid and will cause a problem similar to what you discribe.
This: <a name="anchor"></a> is valid.
The W3C validator doesn't catch that one. |
Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20584 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2004 : 09:32:44
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| I am not using any anchors on the page, but thanks for the tip. |
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stuF
Average Member
United Kingdom
561 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2004 : 17:38:19
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Onr infuriating problem with firefox is the fact that by default there is no scrollbar, so if you center content on a part page, then on a page longer than the browser window the whole page shifts across by half the width of the scrollbar.
Mozilla wont regard this as a bug they say its consistent with not having scrollers for textareas when theyre not needed, but its so annoying. I had to add a 100.1% height setting to the body of my css document. Other thanthat, from the point of view of a designer and a user i hae no complaints, but im not going to become so reliant on ff as i was on IE for a long time, there companies are going to have to work hard to get me using thier software, and that way things are only going to get better. |
http://36-degrees.co.uk |
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 08 August 2004 : 17:49:55
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| Oh, I never noticed that internet explorere keeps its scrollbar. . . . |
Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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