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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
 Posted - 29 March 2003 : 21:55:37
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What you are reading here is far from being a representative sample of any country. There have been fewer than 100 posters here in total, and they have come from all around the world.
Keeping that in mind there is little reason for any posters to provoke anyone here, since all you will learn is something about a specific individual, and you whatever you may learn is probably not worth the ill-will that provocation creates. If you have something to say, say it but don't start flame wars in the process.
$00000000000000.02
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2003 : 22:01:46
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quote:
In TV (even in the censored US-TV)
What gives you all that wisdom?
When will you get it in your head that the American media does what it wants?
When will you grasp that the only reason you enjoy the same free media is that you were lucky enough to be defended by US forces after WWII?
Why don't you ask what your East German brothers had to endure until we helped you bring down that wall?
You see, there is more to why you see certain things in the media in some societies, and not in others.
In free countries, where the media is a business, it is usually dictated by profit motives.
They show what they think sells best.
If they present stuff that upsets their viewers, they may lose ratings, which goes against their profit interests.
In police states it is usually dictated by the government.
As you well know, those governments do not have the same interests as a business has.
If you believe you need to "provoke" the members of this community to make your point you are mistaken.
Most of us recognized long ago that they had to be a bit more tolerant with you, for reasons I better not go into.
It would not be out of place for you to be appreciative of the patience and tolerance shown by many in here.
But please do us one favor - stop lecturing us on our own conditions as if you knew better, whether it is freedom of the media, or our system of government, or anything else for that matter.
You don't know better, and you really do not have the qualifications to lecture us, even if you may think so.
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Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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Edited by - Alfred on 29 March 2003 22:45:18 |
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Pi
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2003 : 22:14:21
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Dynamix, one of the traits I have seen in this "discussion" is that if a view is presented which challenges the status quo, then it seems to be taken as either a personal attack, utterly offensive or an object for sneering. I am not interested in changing peoples minds, but am interested in showing / learning about different points of view; there is little dialogue.
There is, for me , a major lack of curiousity in differing point of view. For example I find putting my countries flag as part of a pro-military symbol into logo of this board really offensive. Why? The same reason that if there was an Iraqi open source project which flew -their- flag, with "swords of victory" in the background, I would protest -that- the same way.
A logo matters, is not trivial and can be a major statement of the values of an organisation or group. My point of view is a request that open source projects are kept politically neutral.
Surely, snitz is a -global- forum??? If it is not, it may be appropriate to indicate -upfront- that the administration of the board DOES have a particular political point of view which it promotes through the site and that if someone does not like it they should go somewhere else.
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2003 : 22:16:15
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Dynamix, have you ever been to the US? Have you ever stopped in a US newstand and actually bought a newspaper or a magazine and took a look around to see what other magazines are available? Heck, have you ever heard of Larry Flint, owner of a famous magazine named Hustler? Do you watch CNN or other american channels? Have you ever watched CBS 60 minutes? Did you ever heard about something called Watergate?
I don't know where did you get the idea that there is censorship in the US media, more than in any other western media, but that assertion sounds completely ludicrous to me. I have wrote before that your idea that your just better informed than other people and thus you know better what is going on, and if the others knew that as well would agree with you is ... well, let's say a bit patronizing, wouldn't you think? |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2003 : 22:27:54
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Pi, this is a private space run by the owners of the copyright, they can do whatever they please. Just because this is an open source project, it does not mean that every visitor gets to vote on what should be shown or not. I'm not saying this to have you go away, I'm not even related to the copyright owners in any way, but this is their space. Yours, and that applies to all the forum's visitors, is the option to stay away if you disagree with the way they run their forum.
I also disagree with you on the way people take your arguments. I guess it could easily be put the other way. It seems like you'd want people to agree with you just because. Well it does not work that way. What I've seen is people presenting their views and people disagreeing. That's what happens about virtually any other subject you could think of. There is no status quo. Even if you take a look at the Snitz team members, some are highly vocally against the war, like Bozden, and he hasn't been thrown out of the team for that.
At Snitz there is the habit of discussing things in an educated manner. I see no difference in this case, though I admit that I have a hard time understanding why some people see themselves as the owners of the absolute truth. I have no such feelings, have learned that quite a long ago. I can live with people thinking differently and its much more fun that it is so. |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2003 : 22:48:09
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quote:
The same reason that if there was an Iraqi open source project which flew -their- flag, with "swords of victory" in the background, I would protest -that- the same way.
...and you would probably be told the same thing - if you are lucky. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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TestMagic
Senior Member
USA
1568 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2003 : 22:50:48
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You know, I have to admit that I thought of Dynamix last night when I was watching on CNN a live press conference given by Iraq's Minister of Information, in which he threatened to sue Bush as a war criminal. Personally, I found it interesting to hear what he had to say, and I was happy that I was fortunate enough to be able to watch it.
Dynamix, I think you've made your point. We got it. I'm afraid at this point, at leat for my part, we'll have to "agree to disagree."
BTW, you never addressed my post, the one in which I pointed out to you that the satirical image that you posted was in fact produced by a large American media conglomerate? |
Snitz rocks! · Search 2 |
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 29 March 2003 : 23:59:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
In TV (even in the censored US-TV)
What gives you all that wisdom?
When will you get it in your head that the American media does what it wants?
When will you grasp that the only reason you enjoy the same free media is that you were lucky enough to be defended by US forces after WWII?
Why don't you ask what your East German brothers had to endure until we helped you bring down that wall?
You see, there is more to why you see certain things in the media in some societies, and not in others.
In free countries, where the media is a business, it is usually dictated by profit motives.
They show what they think sells best.
If they present stuff that upsets their viewers, they may lose ratings, which goes against their profit interests.
In police states it is usually dictated by the government.
As you well know, those governments do not have the same interests as a business has.
If you believe you need to "provoke" the members of this community to make your point you are mistaken.
Most of us recognized long ago that they had to be a bit more tolerant with you, for reasons I better not go into.
It would not be out of place for you to be appreciative of the patience and tolerance shown by many in here.
But please do us one favor - stop lecturing us on our own conditions as if you knew better, whether it is freedom of the media, or our system of government, or anything else for that matter.
You don't know better, and you really do not have the qualifications to lecture us, even if you may think so.
Alfred, would you also stop provoking people. Your qualifications don't give you the right to judge anyone else's qualifications here and your last comment is uncalled for.
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 30 March 2003 : 01:05:08
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Doug, we may disagree on some points of this discussion, and that is fine.
But, as mature adults we should be able to conduct ourselves in a responsible and civil manner, and not let our disagreements cloud our perspectives.
Even the most open-minded and tolerant participants in this topic have finally seen enough and disapprove of Dynamix's tone and attitudes.quote:
But I say thatīs a sick way of thinking!
Do you feel it's fine to be told to have a "sick way of thinking", but provokative of me to ask not be be lectured by someone who has demonstrated his lack of judgement of conditions we are more familiar with than he is?
I can't express it more conservative than I did, and believe me, it took a lot of restraint. |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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Edited by - Alfred on 30 March 2003 02:59:11 |
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 30 March 2003 : 01:26:29
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quote:
But, as mature adults we should be able to conduct ourselves in a responsible and civil manner, ...
Yes. Please try to do so in the future.
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Alfred
Senior Member
USA
1527 Posts |
Posted - 30 March 2003 : 02:02:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug G
quote:
But, as mature adults we should be able to conduct ourselves in a responsible and civil manner, ...
Yes. Please try to do so in the future.
Are you suggesting I need to be told by you what mature and responsible adult behavior is?
It seems that our basic disagreement on the main subject is creating a bias here! |
Alfred
The Battle Group
CREDO
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dl4gbe
Starting Member
Thailand
36 Posts |
Posted - 30 March 2003 : 04:21:07
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Hallo Friends:
Last weekend I went to a refugee camp of Hmong People. Yes even
more than 25 years after the end of the secret war in Laos, this things still exist. People also still get killed by American bombs in Laos after all this years. My wife was born in a village which was bombed by American
B 52 bombers. I talk to a lot of people which remember with horror than the bombs fall like eggs on their villages. This air raids were and are a crime. And what did it help? Hundreds of Thousends of refugees, hatrige between low land laotian and the hill tribes. Laos was a nutreal country,
and got bombed into the stone ages.
America abandend the hill tribes in Laos who were fighting the dirty war for them, they abanded the Shiits in southern Irak, they bombed and left.
The Americans evacuted Long Tieng with 3 planes. Tens of Thousends of their allies had to make it through the jungels of Laos to the thai side.
Many died. This is what I know about American politics. 
Hallo Pi:
I was shocked when I saw the change in the Snitz Forum Banner. I think I have to remove the Snitz Banners from my page and keep only the minimum to be Copyright Confirm.
Chris 
Vietiane , Laos (People Democratic Republic)
Kingdom of Thailand
Remember Long Tieng, Remember Sam Neua!!!! |
WWW.TIP-THAILAND.DE
The newspaper for the
German speaking Community in South East Asia (Offices in Phuket, Pattaya, Bangkok, Nong Khai, Vietiane)
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Edited by - dl4gbe on 30 March 2003 04:41:45 |
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PeeWee.Inc
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1893 Posts |
Posted - 30 March 2003 : 07:36:48
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| After allthis talk, it's gotme thinking about joining the army, do you think i should? |
De Priofundus Calmo Ad Te Damine |
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Dynamix
Junior Member
Germany
205 Posts |
Posted - 30 March 2003 : 09:03:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
quote:
In TV (even in the censored US-TV)
What gives you all that wisdom?
When I was in the USA I have seen much TV and after this I could compare same News in Germany. In Germany most TV Stations told the same things but even much more, than the US.
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
When will you get it in your head that the American media does what it wants?
Yes, that is possible, but it is also possible that the interessts of TV and government the same. And that is not a neutral coverage!
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
When will you grasp that the only reason you enjoy the same free media is that you were lucky enough to be defended by US forces after WWII?
Why don't you ask what your East German brothers had to endure until we helped you bring down that wall?
Hey, as I told you: Iīm thankful for that and I also know that! BUT: I still feel friendship for the US and as a good friend I do what a good friend has to do: I tell my friend heīs wrong! I try to open eyes, because most americans have them closed like blind men!
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
In free countries, where the media is a business, it is usually dictated by profit motives.
They show what they think sells best.
If they present stuff that upsets their viewers, they may lose ratings, which goes against their profit interests.
If goverment tells them, itīs possible they could loose their licenses or anything else, they would not show it. And Iīm sure that if a single TV Station would show pictures which an other TV station would not show, they would make MUCH money, because many people would take a look at those pictures. If there is a real and free competition someone would show it. So tell me how could there be a difference between german TV and US TV?
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
In police states it is usually dictated by the government.
As you well know, those governments do not have the same interests as a business has.
Hahahaha. US is a police state! There are so many examples for that:
- CIA, NSA, FBI
- The observation during EU-conferences
- your Echolon Network which is a Scandal and which should be in Europe forbidden!
- Death penalty
- Rodney King
- Watergate
- and much much more!
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
If you believe you need to "provoke" the members of this community to make your point you are mistaken.
Most of us recognized long ago that they had to be a bit more tolerant with you, for reasons I better not go into.
It would not be out of place for you to be appreciative of the patience and tolerance shown by many in here.
[Irony on]Thank you for beeing such a tolerant![/Irony off]
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred
But please do us one favor - stop lecturing us on our own conditions as if you knew better, whether it is freedom of the media, or our system of government, or anything else for that matter.
You don't know better, and you really do not have the qualifications to lecture us, even if you may think so.
Good example again:
Why should I stop that? For YOUR censorship? Thatīs again the well known way of american thinking... |
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Dynamix
Junior Member
Germany
205 Posts |
Posted - 30 March 2003 : 09:05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Pi
Surely, snitz is a -global- forum??? If it is not, it may be appropriate to indicate -upfront- that the administration of the board DOES have a particular political point of view which it promotes through the site and that if someone does not like it they should go somewhere else.
Here we agree 100% again. |
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