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snaayk
Senior Member
USA
1061 Posts |
 Posted - 07 January 2003 : 08:49:29
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I have started to use PNG for all my graphics. Photoshop does an OK job of working with it but I heard there are a few other apps that do better work.
Hopefully transperancy will get better support sometime in the future. I have been using objectdock, which uses .ico or .png files and the way it handles transperancy is incredible. |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 09:10:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Gremlin
PNG is starting to gain acceptance now, all version 6 browsers support it I believe.
Not sure that Mozilla does it, yet. It's just a matter of time though, until all the major browsers do. |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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Roland
Advanced Member
Netherlands
9335 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 10:49:04
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quote:
Originally posted by davemaxwell
The only time that applies is if you use an non-licensed software package to create the images. So if you use photoshop or paint shop pro or corel to make your images, you would be totally legal. The patent is totally unenforceable because they are not going to try to take every holder of gif images because there would be no way of determining how the image was created....
That's what I thought, but then why would they still charge people/websites for using GIF files? It doesn't make sense to me...
By the way, if I recall correctly, something similar was said to happen with JPG files some time back. The organisation that's behind JPG wanted to enforce their patents. Didn't they charge imaging software makers as well?
quote:
Originally posted by ruirib
quote:
Originally posted by Gremlin
PNG is starting to gain acceptance now, all version 6 browsers support it I believe.
Not sure that Mozilla does it, yet. It's just a matter of time though, until all the major browsers do.
Oh, but that's 'cause Mozilla isn't version 6 yet... 5 more versions to go until it's version 6  
Most browsers (like Rui, I'm not sure about Mozilla) can handle PNG files flawlessly until transparency is used. There's a Microsoft KnowledgeBase article about how to get the transparency working, but from what I remember, it was such a hassle that it simply wasn't worth it, and that might've been an IE-only fix.
Also, one rather big limitation of PNG, at least for some purposes, is that there's no animation possible. Banners are starting to become SWF files, but I can't imagine all animated smilies, arrows and rotating @-signs being turned into SWF files too |
Edited by - Roland on 07 January 2003 10:49:50 |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 11:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by FrutZle
Oh, but that's 'cause Mozilla isn't version 6 yet... 5 more versions to go until it's version 6
Ah, I guess that explains it then . They will have time to add that support in the 5 upcoming versions I guess... |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
Edited by - ruirib on 07 January 2003 11:45:00 |
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Roland
Advanced Member
Netherlands
9335 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 12:31:23
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BIG surprise... at least it was for me 
Check out http://www.frutzle.com/gifpng/ to see the difference between a "high quality" GIF and a PNG32 image. Both have a transparent background. Quality difference of the "ball" itself is neglectable for web purposes IMO.
Now the surprise lies in using Mozilla, Netscape (6 or 7) or Opera (6) instead of IE. NN 4.72 can't understand PNG too well, and is so old that I'll leave that out of the game.
<edit> I've just found the Microsoft KnowledgeBase article that contains the IE6 fix and applied it to a copy of the PNG file. Be sure to check the results in all browsers </edit>
>> SPOILER <<
Conclusion: in IE you can't use PNG32 files straight out of the box, but you can in the other browsers I named above.
When using a GIF with a blur like that, you'll have to use a different image for each background color. In the above-named browsers, you can use one PNG and not have that problem.
Reason not to use PNG: large file size (52kb against 20kb for the GIF), although it should get cached and not cause all that much trouble, and, I'm using a somewhat large image.
<edit> Microsoft's "fix" is an IE-only fix and renders the use of PNG files useless unless your site is visited by IE-users only because the image simply disappears. It's time for Microsoft to release a new version of IE with working PNG support, or another IE patch. </edit>
Addendum (big word eh? )
When using the MSKB "fix" for PNG files, the image size in IE is drastically reduced from 52kb to 1.9kb. How is that done? In Opera the PNG file is still 52kb (I can't get that info in Netscape). |
Edited by - Roland on 07 January 2003 13:57:52 |
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snaayk
Senior Member
USA
1061 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 13:49:55
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Not to be outdone I put together a little comparison myself.
They have been done with no patches (unless it was a windows update fix) on an XP machine using photoshop 7.
Look Here
As you can see from the images, my PNG files are smaller than my GIFs. 16.93 VS 16.99. I, however, am using PNG-8.
I used a black background because I feel its harder to use transparent images on dark bgs opposed to light ones.
You will notice that in the file that I used PNG24 (highest photoshop has) it looks better a little samoother on color transitions but no transperany (without fix), but not good enough for the file size differance.
I see no noticeable differance between the GIFS and PNGs...
Lsstly the save web dialogue with the setting used. |
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pweighill
Junior Member
United Kingdom
453 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 15:28:15
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quote:
Originally posted by FrutZle
I've looked into using PNG files instead of GIFs when I did my last redesign for FrutZle.com, but decided against it mainly because of the sizes of the files.
Here's the sizes of all* the Snitz Icons in gif and png versions.
Over all, png produces the smaller files, although you could mix'n'match to get the smallest set.
Filename GIF PNG Saving
button_go.gif 892 912 -20
button_login.gif 980 964 16
button_logout.gif 1132 1043 89
icon_aim.gif 346 396 -50
icon_bar.gif 67 170 -103
icon_blank.gif 60 153 -93
icon_calendar.gif 268 272 -4
icon_closed_topic.gif 122 238 -116
icon_delete_reply.gif 117 224 -107
icon_edit_topic.gif 121 230 -109
icon_editor_bold.gif 923 190 733
icon_editor_center.gif 911 183 728
icon_editor_code.gif 927 199 728
icon_editor_email.gif 990 284 706
icon_editor_hr.gif 929 201 728
icon_editor_image.gif 963 236 727
icon_editor_italicize.gif 910 205 705
icon_editor_left.gif 908 181 727
icon_editor_list.gif 915 188 727
icon_editor_quote.gif 950 233 717
icon_editor_right.gif 907 183 724
icon_editor_smilie.gif 602 294 308
icon_editor_strike.gif 924 205 719
icon_editor_underline.gif 923 195 728
icon_editor_url.gif 982 275 707
icon_email.gif 156 255 -99
icon_folder.gif 900 230 670
icon_folder_archive.gif 917 236 681
icon_folder_archived.gif 906 235 671
icon_folder_closed.gif 926 271 655
icon_folder_closed_topic.gif 180 299 -119
icon_folder_delete.gif 158 253 -95
icon_folder_hold.gif 909 230 679
icon_folder_locked.gif 171 275 -104
icon_folder_moderate.gif 909 238 671
icon_folder_new.gif 152 238 -86
icon_folder_new_locked.gif 924 275 649
icon_folder_new_sticky.gif 916 257 659
icon_folder_new_sticky_locked 943 292 651
icon_folder_new_topic.gif 159 247 -88
icon_folder_open.gif 158 258 -100
icon_folder_open_topic.gif 164 275 -111
icon_folder_pencil.gif 166 265 -99
icon_folder_sticky.gif 918 259 659
icon_folder_sticky_locked.gif 944 293 651
icon_folder_unlocked.gif 176 277 -101
icon_folder_unmoderated.gif 906 236 670
icon_go_down.gif 122 228 -106
icon_go_left.gif 120 233 -113
icon_go_right.gif 152 240 -88
icon_go_up.gif 152 236 -84
icon_group.gif 227 292 -65
icon_group_categories.gif 238 348 -110
icon_homepage.gif 160 250 -90
icon_icq.gif 899 238 661
icon_ip.gif 211 270 -59
icon_lastpost.gif 864 208 656
icon_lock.gif 99 202 -103
icon_minus.gif 841 173 668
icon_msnm.gif 952 362 590
icon_pencil.gif 94 201 -107
icon_photo_none.gif 1506 972 534
icon_plus.gif 847 179 668
icon_posticon.gif 140 228 -88
icon_posticon_hold.gif 891 236 655
icon_posticon_unmoderated.gif 896 252 644
icon_print.gif 149 240 -91
icon_private_add.gif 913 193 720
icon_private_addall.gif 923 205 718
icon_private_remall.gif 922 205 717
icon_private_remove.gif 912 196 716
icon_profile.gif 154 260 -106
icon_profile_locked.gif 173 280 -107
icon_reply_topic.gif 125 238 -113
icon_send_topic.gif 119 215 -96
icon_smile.gif 169 266 -97
icon_smile_8ball.gif 269 365 -96
icon_smile_angry.gif 170 276 -106
icon_smile_approve.gif 172 278 -106
icon_smile_big.gif 166 273 -107
icon_smile_blackeye.gif 170 278 -108
icon_smile_blush.gif 234 278 -44
icon_smile_clown.gif 178 297 -119
icon_smile_cool.gif 166 284 -118
icon_smile_dead.gif 231 308 -77
icon_smile_disapprove.gif 174 280 -106
icon_smile_evil.gif 178 288 -110
icon_smile_kisses.gif 174 289 -115
icon_smile_question.gif 168 276 -108
icon_smile_sad.gif 171 280 -109
icon_smile_shock.gif 171 274 -103
icon_smile_shy.gif 230 284 -54
icon_smile_sleepy.gif 166 265 -99
icon_smile_tongue.gif 233 302 -69
icon_smile_wink.gif 172 280 -108
icon_sort.gif 913 243 670
icon_star_blue.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_bronze.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_cyan.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_gold.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_green.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_orange.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_purple.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_red.gif 909 336 573
icon_star_silver.gif 909 336 573
icon_subscribe.gif 917 250 667
icon_topic_all_read.gif 159 250 -91
icon_trashcan.gif 79 187 -108
icon_unlock.gif 100 201 -101
icon_unsubscribe.gif 905 243 662
icon_url.gif 218 325 -107
icon_yahoo.gif 87 201 -114
logo_powered_by.gif 2789 2591 198
logo_snitz_forums_2000.gif 5406 5105 301
readme_admin_email_config.gif 7473 3691 3782
Total 75217 42960 32257
(* icon_folder_hot.gif and icon_folder_new_hot.gif not icluded since they are animated) |
Edited by - pweighill on 07 January 2003 15:33:31 |
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seven
Senior Member
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 16:58:23
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I just patented the concept of reading left to right... when you finish reading this post you will owe me $210.  |
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Gremlin
General Help Moderator
New Zealand
7528 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 17:45:52
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| I believe Mozzilla does support PNG currently (un tested could be complete boll*cks just seem to recall reading it somewhere) |
Kiwihosting.Net - The Forum Hosting Specialists
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Carefree
Advanced Member
Philippines
4222 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 20:19:43
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In the tradition started by Al Gore, I just "invented the internet". Everyone who uses it must pay me $5000 per month since the day they first went online. ROFL
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James
Average Member
USA
539 Posts |
Posted - 08 January 2003 : 00:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by LanKuchang
so what now?
if unisys have their way.. we got to pay USD5,000 or use PNG?
what this all means?
quote:
Now Unisys is taking final advantage of its patent, which is set to expire in the United States in 2003. At the same time, alternative formats, such as PNG, may be closer than ever to winning broad acceptance.
Anyone done any checking to see if that patent actually expires this year, and if it's renewable?
BTW, searching the US patent website for unisys and lzw I come up with this page. |
*Interested in Radio Control*
*The RC Web Board - http://www.rcwebboard.com/* |
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Roland
Advanced Member
Netherlands
9335 Posts |
Posted - 08 January 2003 : 04:58:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Gremlin
I believe Mozzilla does support PNG currently (un tested could be complete boll*cks just seem to recall reading it somewhere)
Hmmm... you must've missed my reply |
Edited by - Roland on 08 January 2003 05:01:12 |
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Gremlin
General Help Moderator
New Zealand
7528 Posts |
Posted - 08 January 2003 : 06:37:16
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| To be honest, I don't even remember that post being there when I replied :p |
Kiwihosting.Net - The Forum Hosting Specialists
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