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craigw7272
Starting Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
 Posted - 04 January 2003 : 17:18:04
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Strange subject ... you'd be surprised :) I'm trying to find out how developers learn what they learn. I've been coding for 15 years, almost MSc qualified with various MS* qualifications. I have a huge ref. library of books and almost all my applications are commercial. So I have this question ....
Why when I try participate in open source development I find I don't understand why things are being coding in the way they are. I understand the syntax as I am proficient in c,c++,c#,perl but I don't understand how development plans where produced, why so many abstract classes and interfaces are used etc.
The end result of this "missing" knowledge is I can't really participate. This is bad ... how do I learn this missing information if I can't work with it ...
does this make sense ... its been a long week ;) - I'd like to know how those OpenSource developers formulate their development plans and where they found this information and more importantly why this are the way they are!
I can code whatever I want, it always seems to work yet the code seems very simplistic ... just my style or bad ?
thanks for any help :)
Craig |
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D3mon
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1685 Posts |
Posted - 04 January 2003 : 17:33:10
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I've got no developer-specific qualifications whatsoever, just a love of programming (I hate reading books and I hate taking exams even more) but since working with Snitz code and playing with other chunks of code, I similarly find that my reference books seem to bear only a passing resemblance to the code I'm using.
My conclusion is that software development isn't about having books and exams but actually 'living' in a coding community (like Snitz) and following the constant 'evolution' that is programming. A lot of the practices used in Snitz are the result of considerable testing and comparison between the 'by the book' methods and new methods proposed by forward-thinking developers. Naturally, the best/fastest/smallest method survives. |
Snitz 'Speedball' : Site Integration Mod : Friendly Registration Mod
"In war, the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won" |
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craigw7272
Starting Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 04 January 2003 : 17:42:07
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Thanks - that does make sense however I can throw a spanner in the works here, how do you get involved in a coding project such as Snitz if you can't contribute or understand ?
I do agree, exams, books only get you so far.
Craig |
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D3mon
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1685 Posts |
Posted - 04 January 2003 : 18:17:08
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I only knew HTML, CSS and some ASP before I stumbled into Snitz.
Originally, I couldn't contribute or understand, but the beauty of Snitz is that, as it is based on a discussion forum, a lot of the fundamental concepts of its code are dicussed, sometimes in depth, right here in the forums, very often by fine people who are willing to take the time to explain.
Just read a long for a few weeks and you'll very soon start to pick up the 'trail' as each of the developers here goes through the day- to-day business of implementing/maintaining their own forums or creating modifications. In no time at all, it will be top of your daily favourites list!  |
Snitz 'Speedball' : Site Integration Mod : Friendly Registration Mod
"In war, the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won" |
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craigw7272
Starting Member
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 04 January 2003 : 18:19:26
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| Sounds like a good idea! :D |
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D3mon
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1685 Posts |
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Gremlin
General Help Moderator
New Zealand
7528 Posts |
Posted - 04 January 2003 : 18:59:54
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Having worked in the mainframe development arena the last 15 years or so as an Assmebler Programmer, Team Leader and Project Manager, I've come to the belief that there are really two types of programmers, theres the "naturals" who make everything look easy and seem to generally code using "trial and error" methods, and then theres the regular people who have to work that little bit harder to understand the concepts and tend to code in a much more precise almost "taught" manner.
I look at programming much like Music, Sports and other creative subjects, for some writing a program takes a similar process to say writing a piano concerto it just sort of comes to them piece by piece not neccessarily in a structured manner. These "naturals" are the people I believe you find most often involved in OpenSource projects possibly just becuase of the extra challenge offered by diving into someone elses code with no manual or documentation to show you the way.
I know it was a little daunting when I got given my first 25,000-30,000 Line assembler program and told "here you have to find this small bug and fix it please" ... minimal documentation, not really sure just what the program did anyway but the challenge of doing that is what made me think "hey this is fun, I think I'm gonig to enjoy this job".
Being one type of programmer or the other doesn't neccesarily make or mean your a bad programmer, though it could be said in fact that the "naturals" tend to be worse programmers because of their more cowboyish and unstructured ways becuase it generally takes another "natural" to work out how the heck it works.
I've found though that a development team, generally works more efficiently with a mixture of both types of people in them as they usually complement each other quite nicely. |
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laser
Advanced Member
Australia
3859 Posts |
Posted - 04 January 2003 : 23:25:27
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| Good one Gremlin, I agree 110% |
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davemaxwell
Access 2000 Support Moderator
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06 January 2003 : 08:03:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Gremlin
I know it was a little daunting when I got given my first 25,000-30,000 Line assembler program and told "here you have to find this small bug and fix it please" ...
**shudder** 25-30,000 line assembler program? I like debugging and all, but that would be enough to drive me batty..... |
Dave Maxwell
Barbershop Harmony Freak |
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Gremlin
General Help Moderator
New Zealand
7528 Posts |
Posted - 06 January 2003 : 08:08:14
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| hehe, it's a baby compared to some I've worked on. |
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davemaxwell
Access 2000 Support Moderator
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06 January 2003 : 09:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Gremlin
hehe, it's a baby compared to some I've worked on.
You have my condolences. I've only worked on a few assembler pgms, and that was too many. I figured out early in my career that I'm not a bits & bytes person.... |
Dave Maxwell
Barbershop Harmony Freak |
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mios
Junior Member
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 09:33:06
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The guy who origionaly introduced me to programming (about 1982-1983) had built his own Z80 based computer (about the 4th one he had built) from scratch. (as in Design, writing the OS, ROM....)
He used to program nativley in HEX, (couldn't be bothered to write a assembler).
A bit clever!
And for anyone in the UK who remembers the BBC Micro, he had 4 of them on fibre optic network which again he bui;t from scratch. |
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Gremlin
General Help Moderator
New Zealand
7528 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2003 : 17:43:39
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| I loved the BBC Micro, largely becuase it had an inbuilt Assmbler hehe, you could move from coding in Basic to Assembler (or HEX) within the same program iirc. |
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