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TimSinnott
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 10 April 2002 : 12:56:47
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I've got a lot of respect for the creators, developers and contributors to Snitz Forums 2000. It's a great result of much work and creative thinking.
It's a sign of old age or a closed mind, however, for Snitz to ignore ASP.NET.
There are still a few old geezers (even older than me) who are still writing apps in MS-DOS. They said, Why learn Windows programming when DOS will be around for a long time to come? They said, Why should we learn something new when we're so comfortable with good old DOS?
ASP.NET is simply better and far more powerful than ASP.
If the Snitz admins and contributors aren't willing to move forward with this major advance of technology, then in all likelyhood, Snitz will quickly loose its high position among forums applications.
Yep, it hurts to learn. But in this business, there is no other choice, even for us old guys.
Tim Sinnott |
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redbrad0
Advanced Member
USA
3725 Posts |
Posted - 10 April 2002 : 13:15:49
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i am sure SOME DAY snitz will convert over to asp.net. but here are some reasons why they have not...
1. snitz will work on a .net server
2. snitz is designed to work on my different platforms. this is so snitz can have a wider userbase.
3. .net (as far as i know) is still in beta
Brad
Web Hosting with SQL Server @ $24.95 per month
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bikedude
Starting Member
38 Posts |
Posted - 10 April 2002 : 13:48:55
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quote:
3. .net (as far as i know) is still in beta
Nope. It's production code now. In fact, they've already released Service Pack 1.
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davemaxwell
Access 2000 Support Moderator
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 10 April 2002 : 14:42:14
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Just SOME of the reasons not to go to .NET just yet.
1) Server availability. The number of servers with .NET capability that are affordable is low right now.
2) Total rewrite. Simply converting Snitz over to .NET would be a waste of the capabilities of .NET
3) Knowledgebase. There are not a whole lot of .NET officianados yet. Give it time.
3) ASP is still widely used. People are going to wait at least until after the first service pack is released to go to .NET, plus with the cost built in of converting, it's not going to happen soon.
It's not a sign of old age OR a closed mind. ASP is here to stay for quite a while. Going to the latest and greatest is not always the way to go (which is why in a few years I am going to be able to charge a BOATLOAD of money for my services because colleges don't teach COBOL anymore, and there are somewhere in the multi-billion lines of COBOL code still in existance today and the current crop of COBOL programmers are nearing retirement age....)
Dave Maxwell
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Proud to be a "World Class" Knucklehead |
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@tomic
Senior Member
USA
1790 Posts |
Posted - 10 April 2002 : 15:15:16
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I know people are going to keep on posting "What about .NET?" but seriously, it's only been out of beta a couple months. Even if everyone on the development team made it their top priority tomorrow you wouldn't see it available for download any time soon. It would mean a total rewrite of the code to make it worth the effort. I say be patient.
@tomic
http://www.skepticfriends.org |
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 10 April 2002 : 16:05:49
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The code as it is now still supports ASP 2.0, we have been careful to not include ASP 3.0 specific code. We don't even use vbscript Regular Expressions because some servers might not support it.
Also, right now we have support for Chili!Soft ASP. As far as I know, there isn't a Chili!Soft ASP.NET as yet, so by switching solely to ASP.NET would alienate those using Chili!Soft ASP.
And as Dave Maxwell said, the # of hosting companies that provide ASP.NET hosting is still very, very small. Once the Windows.NET server family is released, then we'll start seeing more and more hosting companies that support ASP.NET. |
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im_no_scrub
Starting Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 22 April 2002 : 13:20:28
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I agree with Tim 
I personally feel as though a .NET version of these forums needs to be developed side-by-side with the current ASP version, not as a replacement of it... for now. It seems like many people are against a .NET version because they may not be able to run an .NET apps on there servers, etc... At this time, I don't think the traditional ASP Snitz forum should go away, I just think that those of us who want/need a .NET version should be allowed to start developing without having people getting upset about copyright issues.
If we develop both a regular and .NET version of the platform now, when the time comes where regular ASP is slowly loosing ground and .NET is gaining in popularity (which we all know will happen 'cause Mr. Gates wants it that way ) people can then switch-over if they want.
However, if we wait several years and THEN start to develop in .NET, you're going to see a LOT more posts like this one (asking for a .NET version), so you better get used to it!!!! hehehe...
Sincerely,
Todd M. Taylor |
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@tomic
Senior Member
USA
1790 Posts |
Posted - 22 April 2002 : 13:43:43
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Download the IbuySpy Portal and use it's forum-like features if you need it so badly right now.
ASP is as strong as ever. I can count on one hand the sites that I've seen switch to ASP.NET and they are all sites about and promoting ASP.NET. No one is ignoring .NET but it's not yet time to make a major transition like that. First you need Snitz developers with .NET expertise. Granted, that will come with developing a Snitz.Net but you also need time for folks to pick up tools like Visual Studio.NET.
.NET just came out. How come if 100% effort isn't thrown in that direction Snitz is "ignoring .NET"?
@tomic
http://www.skepticfriends.org |
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davemaxwell
Access 2000 Support Moderator
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 22 April 2002 : 15:04:29
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quote:
I personally feel as though a .NET version of these forums needs to be developed side-by-side with the current ASP version, not as a replacement of it... for now. It seems like many people are against a .NET version because they may not be able to run an .NET apps on there servers, etc...
No one is against it. This forum has been built up solely on VOLUNTEER time (though at times it seems like a full time job). That being said, there is not a whole lot of time to develop multiple versions of Snitz. Converting it to .NET would be a collosal waste of time and of the power of .NET. Converting it over to web services is more the direction it would need to go, and like various people have said in the multiple posts about .NET, the resources and hosts are not there to warrant a conversion to .NET AT THIS TIME. We didn't say never, but not right now.
The support issue is why EVERYTHING works in ASP 2.0 and with MS Access, SQL Server and MySQL. Imagine if we had a version for ASP 2.0 w/ MS Access, ASP 2.0 w/ SQL Server, ASP 2.0 w/ MySQL, ASP 3.0 w/ MS Access, ASP 3.0 w/ SQL Server and ASP 3.0 w/ MySQL. That's six versions of the software. Throw in the various versions that people run (there are some still in the 2.x versions, a lot in 3.0 and such here asking for support), and the volume gets outrageous.
IF and/or when Snitz makes the concerted effort to go to .NET, we're basically going to have to leave Snitz in it's current incarnation behind to concentrate on the .NET methodology. .NET is still way to new and unsupported to support such a move.
quote:
At this time, I don't think the traditional ASP Snitz forum should go away, I just think that those of us who want/need a .NET version should be allowed to start developing without having people getting upset about copyright issues.
The concern is if you use the Snitz look and feel, then people are going to come here for support or report as being Snitz ripoffs. We have a number of people that come here looking for help with Huw's modded version, even though he set up a whole other forum for that support.
quote:
However, if we wait several years and THEN start to develop in .NET, you're going to see a LOT more posts like this one (asking for a .NET version), so you better get used to it!!!! hehehe...
This reminds me of all the posts I've seen over the years with various UBB forums about why they haven't converted to PHP or started using a database and the fortelling of their doom. They still seem to be going strong, even though they HAVE changed over the years.
ASP is going to be here for quite a while. Read my post above concerning the reasons why to NOT go to .NET for a while.
Dave Maxwell
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Proud to be a "World Class" Knucklehead |
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 22 April 2002 : 16:20:51
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quote:
I agree with Tim
I personally feel as though a .NET version of these forums needs to be developed side-by-side with the current ASP version, not as a replacement of it... for now. It seems like many people are against a .NET version because they may not be able to run an .NET apps on there servers, etc... At this time, I don't think the traditional ASP Snitz forum should go away, I just think that those of us who want/need a .NET version should be allowed to start developing without having people getting upset about copyright issues.
If you want to develop your own forum, feel free to do so. the Snitz Name is copyrighted to Mike Anderson, it is not covered under the GPL. So, if you do decide to create your own forum, you cannot have Snitz as part of the name. We, the Snitz Forums 2000 Development Team, will address ASP.NET when we feel the time is right. I am sorry if you don't like it, but that's the way it is. We are not a commercial product, we don't strive for everyone to use our product. If everyone quit using Snitz Forums 2000 today, we would still develop it, cause we do this because we want to, not because someone uses it on their website.
quote:
However, if we wait several years and THEN start to develop in .NET, you're going to see a LOT more posts like this one (asking for a .NET version), so you better get used to it!!!! hehehe...
Well, we can come up with a canned response and put it in our FAQ and point anyone inquiring about ASP.NET to read it if it comes to that. We do not respond well to people making demands of us, we don't make any money off of this, this isn't our job, this is our hobby. If people want to continue making demands, then they pose the risk of those who develop this project deciding that it isn't worth it anymore. See where I am going? We have lost a few main developers because of the nit picking by users who think they should get 24/7 support. Those who think that their question should be answered within seconds, and if they don't like the answer, they use insults to try and get the answers they want. |
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nomad_2k
Junior Member
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 22 April 2002 : 16:28:15
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I think what people don't understand is ASP.NET is not a new version of ASP it's like comparing ASP and PHP, they are completely different. The only thing reusable from SF2k are the list of features that it supports and possibly the database structure, but IMHO I think that should be built from scratch as well.
If you are intrested in a ASP.NET forum check out this forum they are planning an ASP.NET forum.
Good things come to those who wait.
http://www.freeasphost.co.uk/evolution/ |
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TimSinnott
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 23 April 2002 : 17:30:31
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Well, one piece of good news is that Snitz Forums already runs fine, as is, in any ASP.NET app.
One nice thing about ASP.NET is it's easy-to-use robust security feature called FormsAuthentication. First, note that in ASP.NET, the pages have the extension ".aspx" instead of the ".asp" in ASP.
The ASP.NET FormsAuthentication feature "guards" .aspx files but not the older .asp files. However, by simply changing the extension name from .asp to .aspx, it becomes guarded by the new security system (I think).
What I'm trying to say is that it may be possible to develop a technique for deploying the existing Snitz Forum, as is, to ASP.NET sites, in powerful ways. 
My personal need at this time happens to be the ability to integrate the easy, powerful security system in ASP.NET -- and my site's registration needs -- with the registration/login system in Snitz, so that when I register my users and log them in, they're automatically registered in my Snitz Forum. Other than that, I'm fully satisfied with Snitz in good old ASP.
So if a generalized solution could be developed for the integrated registration need (which many developers will need), and maybe a few more needs, it could turn into a special component by which an ASP.NET site can interface and run a Snitz Forum.
Any ideas anybody? A special forum here in the Snitz Community called ASP.NET would probably be useful to everybody at Snitz. The world is moving fast, guys. "Time and tide wait for no man."
Tim Sinnott |
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Mastro
Starting Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 23 April 2002 : 19:33:50
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I have to jump on the 'Needs to move to ASP.NET' because updating your IIS 5.0 to ASP.NET is free. You can just download the ASP.NET SDK and walla your server is not ASP.NET and all your applications need to run on it.
Like a previous poster said, ASP.NET is not compatible with ASP, yes it's somewhat backward compatible, somewhat, but the fact that I have to change 30% of my lines of code on just one page, makes me re-great switching over to it so soon, since I wasn't ready to go through all of it.
However, ASP.NET is the future of ASP and people will start upgrading sooner or later, since it's free, I won't be able to run Snitz anymore since I want to learn the new stuff. It is a shame.
...Mastro... |
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 23 April 2002 : 19:45:43
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| ASP.NET is 100% backwards compatible with ASP. I have the ASP.NET SDK installed on my server at home and this forum runs just fine without any modifications whatsoever. Not sure where you got your information from, but it is 100% incorrect. |
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@tomic
Senior Member
USA
1790 Posts |
Posted - 23 April 2002 : 19:48:01
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quote:
I have to jump on the 'Needs to move to ASP.NET' because updating your IIS 5.0 to ASP.NET is free. You can just download the ASP.NET SDK and walla your server is not ASP.NET and all your applications need to run on it.
Just how many people in the Snitz community do you think operate their own servers? I am guessing it's an incredibly small percentage.
@tomic
http://www.skepticfriends.org |
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@tomic
Senior Member
USA
1790 Posts |
Posted - 23 April 2002 : 19:50:48
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Richard is right. I have my Snitz forum running on a server with .NET installed as well....just waiting for me to tinker with it.
@tomic
http://www.skepticfriends.org |
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