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mortioli
Average Member
United Kingdom
898 Posts |
 Posted - 03 August 2004 : 14:12:42
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I wonder if anyone could give me some advice.
I want to get into a Web Design / Development job, more so than anything, but I don't really have the spare time to start a college course in ASP etc. So far I've learnt all my web development skills myself, by looking at peoples codes etc, but employers don't give me a chance because of this. I'm only 19, and feel that it's that, and my age, that's letting me down.
Does anyone know of any sites, downloads, etc, that would allow me to learn the advanced stuff from home?
I'd love to be able to hold the knowledge to make something like these fast growing sites (eg, faceparty, facewhore etc), or to even be able to make a small part of it.
I'm at a loose end 
I have an interview on the 12th August as an E-Commerce Co-ordinator, but from past interviews, I'm not holding my breath... |
Edited by - mortioli on 03 August 2004 16:47:40 |
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DavidRhodes
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1222 Posts |
Posted - 03 August 2004 : 15:41:18
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For starters I wouldn't bother with learning ASP, it's been superceeded several times now.
ASP.NET 1.1 is the latest Microsoft offering where you can choose to program in several languages, C# (C Sharp) and VB.NET (Visual Basic) being the most common, my preference is C#. Have a look at www.asp.net at the quickstart tutorials, several links on the left to other sites too. ASP.NET 2.0 is available in beta now but not fully released until early next year, this offers huge improvements over ASP.NET 1.1 with many new time saving features, worth reading up on. |
The UK MkIVs Forum |
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redbrad0
Advanced Member
USA
3725 Posts |
Posted - 03 August 2004 : 17:43:17
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| David is right, learn .NET because that's what everyone is looking for. I was in the same boat as you when I started. I feel like I knew enough that I could get a full time job doing development work but I always got the same answer. "You are able to do what we need you to do, but you do not meet the requirements of having a college degree or 3 years of development under your belt". I did not want to go back to college for personal reasons so I started up my own company where I could get development work. I started to keep a portfolio of what I have done and now I am able to get a development job but have a great lifestyle now that I don't want to change. |
Brad
Oklahoma City Online Entertainment Guide
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Nathan
Help Moderator
USA
7664 Posts |
Posted - 03 August 2004 : 18:36:23
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Learning ASP.NET also has the advantage that .NET is also an application famework so many of your skill can be transfered to application development if need be.
I also recomend C#, though VB.NET seems to be a mit more common among ASP.NET Deveopers, C# is probably more common ammong non-ASP.NET .NET developers.
** If you are seriously considering any form of software development as a carreer it is worth it to make the time for the education. An eduction takes time and money but you will need it if you want employers to treat you seriously, customers to treat you seriously, and I expect you might treat yourself more seriously. |
 Nathan Bales
CoreBoard | Active Users Download |
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pdrg
Support Moderator
United Kingdom
2897 Posts |
Posted - 04 August 2004 : 05:36:52
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My 2p's worth - many of the best 'grunt coders' I've employed in the past have not been to college, in fact many were dyslexic and had a really tough time in education. You need to get past the prejudice and prove your capability, so build yourself up a showreel, do free coding for your own sites, friends sites, and save up to go on a professional course. £1000 for a week, but looks nice on the CV, and shortcuts clumsy college courses. Indeed, I've never been impressed with college courses for programming, usually rather out-of-date and academic.
I would employ someone who demonstrated commitment and the ability and will to teach themselves over a 'fresh graduate' any day - fresh graduates typically come in, thinking they now know it all (hey, they have a degree in COMPUTER SCIENCE (or whatever), yay!!!), and soon find out they have to start right at the bottom as their skills are not real-worldly. Indeed, I'm as happy to employ a history graduate as a computing graduate, as long as they demonstrated a will to teach themselves. Life in IT is continual learning to stand still anyway - what you learn now will be worthless in 3 years  . FWIW I have a degree from a good uni, but in an unrelated subject, it has never held me back, and has only shown that I can learn (and drink lots of snakebite - ugh).
How about going for a professional certification? If you really want to get into e-commerce, how about self-studying something from http://www.eccouncil.org ? Or get a good book or two, and start your MCSE or MCAD or MCSD - it shows employers that you are committed to self-improvement, and that is what counts.
Oh, and be prepared for the 10-year burnout, and start steering your course. The high churn of having to relearn everything every few years takes its toll on your brain  |
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redbrad0
Advanced Member
USA
3725 Posts |
Posted - 04 August 2004 : 11:27:25
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| I agree I had someone contact me that had some people straight out of college build a application and they finally pulled the plug on them because they had no idea what they were doing. There is a big difference in being able to study to past a test and really knowing what you do. Usually the people that tech themseleves love the work and will strive to be alot better. |
Brad
Oklahoma City Online Entertainment Guide
Oklahoma Event Tickets |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 04 August 2004 : 17:31:08
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I beg to disagree. I don't know about what happens with US universities (which I think are not bad), but I teach at a University and I know the value of proper training. I strongly disagree with the notion that professional certification is better than university courses. Though generalizations tend never to be right, software development should be seen as a engineering discipline. Most (not all) people who teach themselves can program allright, but cannot develop large apps, where software engineering needs to be throughly applied.
Experience is good and there are things university courses give that professional certification never does. Probably some university courses would need a more pragmatic view, but the clear distinction you have made is outright wrong, IMVHO. There is a whole lotta difference between a small web app or site and a larger app. Self learning is a need, but having the basics right is fundamental. |
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pdrg
Support Moderator
United Kingdom
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 August 2004 : 06:59:17
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I feel slightly misunderstood - I do not think professional certification is better than university courses per. se., but that each has it's own value. Yes, I agree there are a lot of people out there (with and without degrees) who will make a terrible job of coding an enterprise app, and similarly ones (with and without degrees) who I would trust with the task. I think experience and the will to learn and keep learning is critical, and university should not be seen as the end of your IT training, but the very beginning. I do totally agree that understanding the fundamentals PROPERLY (eg db architecture, queueing systems etc) is very important. There are just many ways to get there, some more efficient than others depending on your goals.
I am currently working for a software company (and I'll guarantee each and every person here is touched by their products - yes, that one), and I know a lot of our best guys didn't go through 'formal' education past age 16, but who do I go to for help, ideas, etc? They are good through understanding the fundamentals, but they didn't learn that at uni.
Just some balance... |
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seahorse
Senior Member
USA
1075 Posts |
Posted - 05 August 2004 : 10:05:07
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I've worked with student interns from University CS programs, and I'd have to say that it depends on the individual. I've met some very talented, entrepreneurial, young people with a lot of initiative. I'd hire them in a second. The problem is not in the education, its in the weeding out process.
I think formal education or no, if you've got the drive to learn and do. You'll get picked up by someone.
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Ken
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Worldwide Partner Group
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