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dayve
Forum Moderator

USA
5820 Posts

Posted - 20 November 2003 :  11:32:18  Show Profile  Visit dayve's Homepage
I work for a non-profit organization which is funded and ruled by the Housing and Urban Development, otherwise known as HUD. I wanted to copy their Privacy Act Statement and got a response back telling me that it was free for the taking because non-profit organizations (and certain other sites) are funded by tax payers so in effect the web site belongs to the public and can be copied at will. I asked him for a legal reference to this which to date he has not provided.

My question is, can someone find me documentation that legitimizes the claim that non-profit organizations web sites can not restrict nor prohibit content copying?

Doug G
Support Moderator

USA
6493 Posts

Posted - 20 November 2003 :  12:03:44  Show Profile
FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) is probably the applicable law. I worked for years with the VA Hospital software, and since it was developed entirely by government employees I was able to get their entire hospital software for only the cost of copying, $25.00 or so).

I don't believe non-government non-profits would fall in this category, and I would definitely check further if you wanted to use something from, say, the American Cancer Society.

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html gives a good overvie of copyrights.


======
Doug G
======
Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com
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seahorse
Senior Member

USA
1075 Posts

Posted - 20 November 2003 :  21:06:33  Show Profile  Visit seahorse's Homepage
I get a lot of the aircraft images for my site from the Department of Defense, which, as taxpayer funded work, puts the stuff in the public domain.

The only problem I really have is that responsibility is often scattered all over the place. The USAF, USN, USMC, and US Army all have different levels of allowed usage rules over images depending on their age. I'm sure that the same is true of other government organizations to a greater or lesser extent.

NASA stuff is one area that comes to mind. One other resource might be the National archives. They're a great resource of images and content. The CIA web site factbook materials are to a certain extent "free" as well.

Here's a link to the digital archives for the national park service.
http://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/index.html

Your taxpayer dollars at work.


Ken
===============
Worldwide Partner Group
Microsoft

Edited by - seahorse on 20 November 2003 21:15:15
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Astralis
Senior Member

USA
1218 Posts

Posted - 20 November 2003 :  23:38:01  Show Profile  Send Astralis a Yahoo! Message
Copyright still pertains to the government. That entity owns it. They may relinquish the copyright, though, if they permit you to freely copy it and most government agencies do this so the precedent would be hard to get around if they decided to prosecute.

Non-profits, though, retain all copyright, even if they are government funded. There is no difference between a non-profit and for-profit business in terms of ownership. Someone still owns or controls it - and neither are the government.
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dayve
Forum Moderator

USA
5820 Posts

Posted - 21 November 2003 :  10:15:18  Show Profile  Visit dayve's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Astralis

Copyright still pertains to the government. That entity owns it. They may relinquish the copyright, though, if they permit you to freely copy it and most government agencies do this so the precedent would be hard to get around if they decided to prosecute.

Non-profits, though, retain all copyright, even if they are government funded. There is no difference between a non-profit and for-profit business in terms of ownership. Someone still owns or controls it - and neither are the government.



Reference please. Not sure I totally subscribe to this.


Edited by - dayve on 21 November 2003 10:15:51
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Astralis
Senior Member

USA
1218 Posts

Posted - 21 November 2003 :  11:14:47  Show Profile  Send Astralis a Yahoo! Message
For the Federal Government, since 1976, the copyright on all work is abandoned, but state and cities may still hold copyright to their work, except for legal proceedings and much other work that is information, such as lists and demographics, etc... (information is fair-use - I can even take a statistic from the NY Times and use it without crediting them - or write an article based on information I learned from the NY Times).

Non-profits, though, are businesses, and although they may receive funding from the Federal Government, they still hold copyright to their work. Even contractors to the federal government can hold copyright to their work they perform for the government except if the government tells them that they can't claim copyright.

quote:

The Copyright Act of 1976 specifically exempts works created by the federal government from copyright protection, continuing a provision from the previous copyright acts. Section 105 states:

Copyright protection under this title is not available for any work of the United States Government, but the United States Government is not precluded from receiving and holding copyrights transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or otherwise. {FN38: 17 U.S.C. §105}

Section 101 clarifies what this includes:

A “work of the United States Government” is a work prepared by an officer or employee of the United States Government as part of that person’s official duties. {FN39: 17 U.S.C. §101}

Note that this is a special rule that federal government works are always in the “public domain.” Public domain works have no copyright owner, and anyone can use the work as they see fit without infringement. Besides federal government works, public domain works include those works so old that their copyright has expired, works that fell into the public domain because of a failure to comply with a requirement like notice or registration, and works whose authors have dedicated them to the public.

The 1976 Act is silent on whether the works of state or local governmental agencies can be copyrighted, but there are cases holding that works published by state or local governments are eligible for copyright protection.

II.D.2. Government Contract Works
The prohibition against copyrights for United States Government publications does not apply to the works produced under government contracts. This was discussed by the drafters of the Act:

A more difficult and far-reaching problem is whether the definition should be broadened to prohibit copyright in works prepared under U.S. Government contract or grant (non-profits receive funding from the governmetn through contracts and mostly grants - Astralis). As the bill is written, the Government agency concerned could determine in each case whether to allow an independent contractor or grantee, to secure copyright in works prepared in whole or in part with the use of Government funds... Source.

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dayve
Forum Moderator

USA
5820 Posts

Posted - 21 November 2003 :  16:10:29  Show Profile  Visit dayve's Homepage
"...there are cases holding..."

that really doesn't confirm much for me unfortunately. I am also not a government contract.

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Astralis
Senior Member

USA
1218 Posts

Posted - 21 November 2003 :  16:24:14  Show Profile  Send Astralis a Yahoo! Message
Dayve,

Copyright law isn't black and white. Often the government will license work from third parties but this doesn't mean that the third parties relinquish the copyright. So, you may find an aircraft photo on the DOD website that you like, but that might be copyrighted to a defense contractor. Unless the DOD told the contractor that they relinquish copyright, they still hold it and the government has exclusive rights to use it.

For your example, the non-profit which is ruled by HUD doesn't make sense because that would make it an arm of the government agency - even Boeing and Lockheed Martin are independent of the government - they aren't ruled by the government. Even non-profit non-government agencies aren't governed by the government. If it's a federal government agency, then you can copy it (but if the work is licensed you may be infringing upon the copyright). If it isn't, then you need permission, regardless if they are funded by the government.

Email me the link. I work in a large law firm and will send it to my colleague in the Intellectual Property department and have him advise.

Edited by - Astralis on 21 November 2003 16:27:02
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