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sacred
Junior Member
USA
153 Posts |
 Posted - 10 August 2003 : 10:24:46
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Added,
No one has an opinion on the industry trend of .net and whether it is here to stay?
Original
I am looking to get back into having a job in the corporate world in computers.
I see many job postings for .Net. I recently ordered a dotnet book for web programming and looking at it I am kinda surprised. I thought DotNet was suppose to make things simpler. Instead I am just beginning to realize that it is more stress on the servers with validation, storing forms in memory, and how it handles recordsets (pulling them all back at once). Let alone download time with that viewstate hidden variable that looks like giberrish. Mind you this is based on a real brief looky at my book.
I am curious as to opinions with DotNet and industry trends. I know that many techie people like to go after the lastest and greatest. But right now I kinda see DotNet like Visual J++. Many C++ jumped on the Visual J++ band wagon and now you do not see many people advertising for jobs in visual J++.
I am a hard core programmer (went to college for CS within Mathematics) not drag and drop. It seems Dotnet is aimed towards Drag and drop. Yet I find myself wondering how exactly are they making things easier on the hand coding professional.
Is it worth taking the time to learn inorder to get a job?
I know the founders stated they have no intention in moving this to DotNet right now and was curious as to their reasons why?
The one idea I do like is it uses vb.net for asp.net programming. No more maintaining 2 different marks ups of vb type code in my head.
Any opinions?
Yours in deepest gratitude,
Sacred |
Edited by - sacred on 12 August 2003 14:53:16 |
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D3mon
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1685 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2003 : 10:53:37
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I just read a line in my .net book which concerns me:
"With the ASP.NET controls, Microsoft basically reinvented HTML, starting from scratch."
If .net takes off, will HTML become MS HTML?! |
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sacred
Junior Member
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2003 : 11:06:43
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quote:
Originally posted by D3mon
I just read a line in my .net book which concerns me:
"With the ASP.NET controls, Microsoft basically reinvented HTML, starting from scratch."
If .net takes off, will HTML become MS HTML?!
Yeah, that is sorta what concerns me with ASP.NET. Not so much the MS HTML. But relearning an entirely new way of programming in ASP, and HTML. I don't mind doing it as long as the program is here for the duration, if you know what i mean. Years in past Miscrosoft has generally kept there languages and how they work similar. But when reading the Book on VB.NET programming for the ASP.NET it seems as if they are changing the entire Buzzwords and the way things are done in producing HTMl and ASP pages.
Like no more Libraries know they are known as Namespaces.
Then to top it off some of the DOM and complicated javascript handling 2 different windows might not be able to be done through ASP.NET. Which means I would still have to hand code javascript and HTML to handle what it can't do. Which means instead getting rid of a language I am having to pick up an entirely new way of programming and language on top of the ones I already have.
Many blessings,
sacred
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OneWayMule
Dev. Team Member & Support Moderator
Austria
4969 Posts |
Posted - 12 August 2003 : 15:11:19
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Well, I am very interested in .NET and have already coded a few scripts, but haven't had the time to really get into it (the fact that I got an ASP.NET book last christmas says it all...).
I'd say the time of .NET will come, but isn't here yet.
Everyone thinks that it's superior compared to other ways of dynamic web programming; but (1).NET has much more potential and brings new possibilities (especially with Web Services and such) and (2) it isn't used the way it's meant to be used by the majority of coders.
What I want to say - an application doesn't have to be better/faster/more secure/etc. just because it's .NET.
Maybe this is one reason why there are currently no plans to create a Snitz .NET, they probably wait until the internet (web servers and especially the users (not the end-users but the people who actually work with/install web applications)) are ready for it. |
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sacred
Junior Member
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 12 August 2003 : 20:57:47
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Hi Onewaymule!
Thanks for your input. I do understand what you are saying. When doing my job searches I am finding alot of jobs asking for .NET experience.
After going through 2 books for .DOT that really made it either too complicated or two easy I finally found a decent book on it for me. Some of the stuff is neat and interesting. But still am concerned with the stress on a web server using it.
Didn't they plan on calling, what is now known as, windows server 2003 initially as windows .net server? But they didn't because people were not too keen with the .NET concepts?
I am goint to write my site registration in .NET along with a calendar. I figured that would be a good introduction to it.
Many thanks,
Sacred |
Edited by - sacred on 12 August 2003 20:59:56 |
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OneWayMule
Dev. Team Member & Support Moderator
Austria
4969 Posts |
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Jeepaholic
Average Member
USA
697 Posts |
Posted - 14 August 2003 : 01:15:26
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Hi there...I'll provide my thoughts on it, as I have been coding in VB.NET since January 2002. I've single-handedly built a large application, and am on my way to building another that's multitudes more complex. I've self-taught myself everything about ASP.NET and VB.NET...without knowing much at all about Object Oriented Programming. But, I've had considerable experience in programming the top-down way.
So, all that being said...I think you're focusing on a couple of the negative things without really looking at what those potentially negative items actually allow you to accomplish. The benefits seriously outweigh the negatives, in my opinion.
Yes, you will have to learn a new language...or two. VB.NET is entirely Object Oriented as you probably know, so throw away much of what you know about regular VB. It's a different way of doing things. ASP.NET changes some things in how you code, but HTML is still HTML. The .NET engine will CREATE the HTML *for you*... No longer (in theory) will you have to code separately for Netscape, IE, Opera, etc. The .NET engine will figure out how to generate the correct code for each browser that hits it...on the fly. Granted, this is not a perfect system...but it's still pretty nice.
If you think about it, in order to have your BUSINESS LOGIC (VB.NET) separated (literally...completely separate files) from your PRESENTATION (ASP.NET) layer, you have to have a language to bridge the gap. ASP.NET allows for this...among many other things. Yes, you can still have business logic and presentation layer in the same file if you wish...but I recommend keeping them separate.
Yes, VS.NET is very visual. I've never worked in a visual environment until I started with .NET, and it's quite nice. However, I do a large portion of my code manually (using VS.NET). It was very helpful in getting me to understand what the visual aspect was doing, and helped me to learn how to code manually as well. I like it a lot. Check out WebMatrix from ASP.NET for a free VisualStudio-Like environment. Many folks that don't buy the VS.NET product swear by it.
No, .NET will not cure you of your JavaScripting needs. .NET is not a client-based architecture...it is a server-based one. So, you're still going to have to know some of that. However, client-side form validation *IS* included (they use JavaScript) and it's VERY nice and robust. I'm also hoping that new scripting engines will be included in the future...but, I'm not really holding my breath.
There are far too many benefits for me to babble about here, but I've been VERY happy with the .NET framework. There are THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of built-in code, ready for you to use...security is greatly enhanced...and it's nice to have true Object Oriented Programming abilities. I can't believe what I've been missing all these years. Haha.
As well, because I've learned to program web applications, I can very easily generate WINDOWS applications. Understand that MS has turned web development into application development. Writing a web application is just like writing a Windows application now... It's just a very different way of thinking about web development, and I love it!
Not sure if this helps, but hopefully it does some.
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Edited by - Jeepaholic on 19 August 2003 01:39:14 |
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snaayk
Senior Member
USA
1061 Posts |
Posted - 15 August 2003 : 14:19:16
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I have to say that .net was intimidating to get into. I was considering all new code for an existing web app to be in .net and rewrite older code as needed, I changed my mind beacuse a lot of it seems so complex - and time is a precious thing. However, I wanted to learn .net/C# so I reopened an old pet project that I had in ASP and rewriting it in .net.c# - I ain't gonna lie, its pretty cool. I just got it to read the SNITZ ccokie and perform code whether or not you're logged in - and now I'm hyped. I'm excited to see what else can be done. Although, I am very weary when it comes time to do trickier things. I situations that I use a lot of loops and/or disconnected recordsets to filter and changeand display data. I see that this will be a bit more diffulcult using the code-behind files and the strict binding logic. I'll see more as I go along...
But .NET is cool!! |
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