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VodkaFish
Average Member
USA
654 Posts |
 Posted - 20 February 2003 : 13:20:53
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Forgive me if a topic was started and deleted if it blew up too fast, because I know these can get heated.
I have many of my own sites and read opinion where I can. There's a pretty good international group here and I was wondering if what I saw on tv was correct, or if I was fed some negative images that didn't represent things right.
I saw many clips of the war protests that were held here in NY and around the world. Of course I knew people here and could ask details about it, but the ones shown around the world seemed quite different. While there were many "No war" signs, there seemed to be a lot of hateful ones. It seemed almost more anti-American and anti-Semetic at times rather then anti-war. While I can understand a sign like "Stop Bush's War Agenda" or "Bush is a madman" etc., whether or not I agree with the statements, I saw some ones comparing him to Hitler or calling for his death and crazy things like that.
So I guess I'm not really asking for a personal opinion on the situation (feel free to give yours anyway, not saying "don't"), but I'd like to know what was the true feel of some protests that were held by you. I'm sure many were fine and I just saw a bad picture or two, but others just seemed like they were inundated with just as much hate as what they claim they were protesting against. Seemed weird to me (hence why I'm asking). |
v ø d k â f ï § h |
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LanKuchang
Junior Member
Malaysia
120 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 13:55:53
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we don't want war to happend. we know the consequences. like you and I who is minding our own business -- we could even find one day that we are loosing our job, or nobody is interested to pay us their good money anymore or we cannot afford things that we use to have.
yep apart from thinking many people get kill.. etc
of course hate start war at the first place. so there's as much hate everywhere as you mentioned seeing.. it contagious?? hope it not got in here while we talk about this topic. |
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 14:41:14
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quote:
of course hate start war at the first place
Oil & Money & American Nationalism
Nobody wants war except Bush, Oil Cartels & Arms Manufacturers.
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but others just seemed like they were inundated with just as much hate as what they claim they were protesting against
Yeah, sure. You think normal talk can (past tense already) stop Bush? The protests are just beginning, so does the US nightmare.
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 Stop the WAR! |
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Nikkol
Forum Moderator
USA
6907 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 15:16:02
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quote:
Originally posted by bozden
Nobody wants war except Bush
 It's not like war is something he hungers for.
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Yeah, sure. You think normal talk can (past tense already) stop Bush? The protests are just beginning, so does the US nightmare.
What do you mean US nightmare? It's not normal or hateful or any kind of talk that is going to "stop Bush" as you put it. It's seeing good faith actions that Bush and the US citizens want. |
Nikkol ~ Help Us Help You | ReadMe | 3.4.03 fixes | security fixes ~ |
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GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 15:25:26
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War is no solution? My daughter, in her assignment on War, wrote, "No one wins in a War, All and everyone loose as bravest of the brave men and women die, innocent people suffer..."
Send people Food and things which they need to live better. Win Hearts and Nations will be Conquered. |
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dayve
Forum Moderator
USA
5820 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 16:27:05
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I want everyone to stop thinking about oil and US foreign policy for a minute and remember all the people that Sadaam Hussein slaughters. The man is in bed with Osama Bin Laden as well. I don't want war, however we need to do something to remove this danger to the world. If that means going to war then I am all for it. Nothing seems to be working, Sadaam will not even follow the simplest terms laid out in UN Resolution 1441. The UN inspectors tested him by asking him to destroy missiles that exceeded the 93 mile range and he has refused. In order to prevent a war, BOTH parties have to work together... this is just not going to happen.
<edit>I've neglected to voice my opinion on this entire subject at other forums because I don't want to offend those with different opinions. I should not have to add a disclaimer, but I hope no one takes my personal views and treats me negatively about it. Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions based on the situation. I support my country 100%, it doesn't mean I agree with everything they do. I also feel this way because I was in the military for 11 years and feel that all the good things we do are ALWAYS overlooked and it is very frustrating. Anyway, please don't hate me for my views on this, I know it is a very sensitive subject.</edit> |
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Edited by - dayve on 20 February 2003 16:32:20 |
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PeeWee.Inc
Senior Member
United Kingdom
1893 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 16:38:22
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quote:
Originally posted by dayve
I want everyone to stop thinking about oil and US foreign policy for a minute and remember all the people that Sadaam Hussein slaughters. The man is in bed with Osama Bin Laden as well. I don't want war, however we need to do something to remove this danger to the world. If that means going to war then I am all for it. Nothing seems to be working, Sadaam will not even follow the simplest terms laid out in UN Resolution 1441. The UN inspectors tested him by asking him to destroy missiles that exceeded the 93 mile range and he has refused. In order to prevent a war, BOTH parties have to work together... this is just not going to happen.
<edit>I've neglected to voice my opinion on this entire subject at other forums because I don't want to offend those with different opinions. I should not have to add a disclaimer, but I hope no one takes my personal views and treats me negatively about it. Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions based on the situation. I support my country 100%, it doesn't mean I agree with everything they do. I also feel this way because I was in the military for 11 years and feel that all the good things we do are ALWAYS overlooked and it is very frustrating. Anyway, please don't hate me for my views on this, I know it is a very sensitive subject.</edit>
i agree 100% |
De Priofundus Calmo Ad Te Damine |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 16:56:45
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I don't think anyone wants war. However, given the nature of some regimes around the world, I think sometimes war, at a time greater evils can be avoided, is probably inevitable. War takes a heavy toll on the warring parties and I think it is simply unswise to depict someone who gets to be a President of a democratic country like the US as someone who wishes anything but to get his countrymen and countrywomen to be taken home in body bags.
I think people fail to realize the role the US has played in ensuring the development of Europe and the Western world. The US has always been willing to pay the price in lives and in dollars of bearing the burden of the defense of the Western way of living, first against the Soviets, now against terrorists, as it has paid during World War I and II. Europeans fail to realize that, as they fail to realize the role of Ronald Reagan in tearing down the Soviet empire, with nuclear missile installation in Europe, much against hordes of europeans chanting 'better red than dead'. They fail to realize that the prosperity of these latest 50 years in Europe are due to the american willingness to bear the burden of european defense.
I think George W. Bush has a bad press reputation, specially in Europe. He is depicted as a dumb war mongerer, and that has surely been of no service to see his efforts to disarm Iraq as truly genuine. I think that has brought about much of the protest agains the war, as well as the fact that he seems willing to go without UN Security Council approval. Europeans see the UN at a different light than what I believe americans do. Getting the UN behind anything done in Iraq, will ensure a a turn in approvall of war against Iraq in Europe as well, I think. Anyway, just as it happened with the protests agains nuclear missile installation in Europe back in the 80s, some things really need to be done in spite of the protests.
I also find it a bit funny that everyone values the UN security council decision so much these days. I think the UN carries the influence it does today much because the US has thrown its military might behind the security council resolutions before. If the US hadn't done it, no one in Europe would have done it. Just look at what happened in Bosnia and Kosovo. Does anyone today questions the value of having done in Kosovo what was done without security council backing?
I just wish someone had done in North Korea what the US wants to do in Iraq now. It would have stopped the risk of having a country ruled by madmen like Kim Jong Il armed with nuclear weapons. I have a strong admiration for the price the US agrees to pay in men and women and US taxpayers money to ensure a better world for all. I'd like to avoid war, but I doubt that it is possible to avoid it. Hopefully it will be brief and not many lives will be lost.
<edited to correct an error - had a 'with' when I wanted a 'without'> |
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Edited by - ruirib on 20 February 2003 18:29:28 |
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sr_erick
Senior Member
USA
1318 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 17:20:56
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quote:
Originally posted by dayve
I want everyone to stop thinking about oil and US foreign policy for a minute and remember all the people that Sadaam Hussein slaughters. The man is in bed with Osama Bin Laden as well. I don't want war, however we need to do something to remove this danger to the world. If that means going to war then I am all for it. Nothing seems to be working, Sadaam will not even follow the simplest terms laid out in UN Resolution 1441. The UN inspectors tested him by asking him to destroy missiles that exceeded the 93 mile range and he has refused. In order to prevent a war, BOTH parties have to work together... this is just not going to happen.
<edit>I've neglected to voice my opinion on this entire subject at other forums because I don't want to offend those with different opinions. I should not have to add a disclaimer, but I hope no one takes my personal views and treats me negatively about it. Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions based on the situation. I support my country 100%, it doesn't mean I agree with everything they do. I also feel this way because I was in the military for 11 years and feel that all the good things we do are ALWAYS overlooked and it is very frustrating. Anyway, please don't hate me for my views on this, I know it is a very sensitive subject.</edit>
I agree also. |
Erick
Snowmobile Fanatics
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20604 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 18:25:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ruirib
I don't think anyone wants war. However, given the nature of some regimes around the world, I think sometimes war, at a time greater evils can be avoided, is probably inevitable. War takes a heavy toll on the warring parties and I think it is simply unswise to depict someone who gets to be a President of a democratic country like the US as someone who wishes anything but to get his countrymen and countrywomen to be taken home in body bags.
I think people fail to realize the role the US has played in ensuring the development of Europe and the Western world. The US has always been willing to pay the price in lives and in dollars of bearing the burden of the defense of the Western way of living, first against the Soviets, now against terrorists, as it has paid during World War I and II. Europeans fail to realize that, as they fail to realize the role of Ronald Reagan in tearing down the Soviet empire, with nuclear missile installation in Europe, much against hordes of europeans chanting 'better red than dead'. They fail to realize that the prosperity of these latest 50 years in Europe are due to the american willingness to bear the burden of european defense.
I think George W. Bush has a bad press reputation, specially in Europe. He is depicted as a dumb war mongerer, and that has surely been of no service to see his efforts to disarm Iraq as truly genuine. I think that has brought about much of the protest agains the war, as well as the fact that he seems willing to go with UN Security Council approval. Europeans see the UN at a different light than what I believe americans do. Getting the UN behind anything done in Iraq, will ensure a a turn in approvall of war against Iraq in Europe as well, I think. Anyway, just as it happened with the protests agains nuclear missile installation in Europe back in the 80s, some things really need to be done in spite of the protests.
I also find it a bit funny that everyone values the UN security council decision so much these days. I think the UN carries the influence it does today much because the US has thrown its military might behind the security council resolutions before. If the US hadn't done it, no one in Europe would have done it. Just look at what happened in Bosnia and Kosovo. Does anyone today questions the value of having done in Kosovo what was done without security council backing?
I just wish someone had done in North Korea what the US wants to do in Iraq now. It would have stopped the risk of having a country ruled by madmen like Kim Jong Il armed with nuclear weapons. I have a strong admiration for the price the US agrees to pay in men and women and US taxpayers money to ensure a better world for all. I'd like to avoid war, but I doubt that it is possible to avoid it. Hopefully it will be brief and not many lives will be lost.
Very well put ruirib.
As everyone else, I do not condone war, but I similarly do not condone the brutal dictatorship of a country by a mad man such as Sadaam. I spent 4 months in Iraq prior to the previous gulf war, and know more than most people what it is like there. He must not be allowed to stay in power, we have made that mistake before, and millions of people died because of it. |
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DJBBIZ
Junior Member
214 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 18:40:36
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I think we should take a soft approach, support Sadaam, give them money for food and infrastructure, help them protect themselves against their enemies and just follow the world's protocol and take the heat off of our worries about terrorist acts in the US. Then when he takes over Turkey, Kuwait, France and anything else he pleases and kills many more people than what would likely die in a US led war, we can name our terms and be the hero...much better position...and we don't have to even think about it as it would eventually happen. There is not really one country in Europe other than maybe England in a postion to defend themselves adequately and swiftly. So sit back and wait, it will happen and we will be asked to defend and we can name our own terms at that point. The important thing is to take the pressure off of us so we don't have to live like "paranoid idiots" and let Iraq's neighbors worry...Sometimes you can't help someone that does not know they need it and does not believe you are helping them, its a no win situation. By the way wasn't that France we liberated back in WWII? I think they sat there and watched their country get taken over back then too, I guess they thought waiting was a better approach.
I don't want to see war or anyone die, certainly not a good productive human being, weather from Iraq, US, Muslim or Catholic... Everyone should be free to contribute to this world, those that just take for their own good need to be dealt with. That is what this forum and open source is all about, a net positive contribution when it is all said and done. |
"The difference between good ideas and good results is performance"
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Edited by - DJBBIZ on 20 February 2003 18:44:58 |
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 19:27:29
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quote:
Originally posted by bozden
Oil & Money & American Nationalism
Nobody wants war except Bush, Oil Cartels & Arms Manufacturers.
Unfortunately, too many people think that is what this is about, it is what the media wants everyone to believe. They just cry that our President is just after Iraq's Oil and don't even consider the real reason. After the Gulf War, Saddam was allowed to stay in power. He agreed to certain terms that were spelled out by the UN. He has not lived up to his side of the agreement. He has blatantly defied the terms of that agreement, and every other country (except for the US and Britain) just look the other way. The first time one of the planes that patrol the no-fly zone was attacked should have been considered a declaration of war, and we should have gone in and finished Saddam off.
I personally think we should have finished the job during the Gulf War, but we have a habit of not finishing wars (WWII comes to mind, we should have taken out Russia at that time). |
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Nikkol
Forum Moderator
USA
6907 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 19:35:50
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Originally posted by RichardKinser
They just cry that our President is just after Iraq's Oil
Anyone who watched the State of the Union would know that wasn't true.
quote:
President Bush announced a $1.2 billion hydrogen fuel initiative to reverse America's growing dependence on foreign oil by developing the technology for commercially viable hydrogen-powered fuel cells to power cars, trucks, homes and businesses with no pollution or greenhouse gases. The hydrogen fuel initiative will include $720 million in new funding over the next five years to develop the technologies and infrastructure to produce, store, and distribute hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles and electricity generation. Combined with the FreedomCAR (Cooperative Automotive Research) initiative, President Bush is proposing a total of $1.7 billion over the next five years to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells, hydrogen infrastructure and advanced automotive technologies.
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seven
Senior Member
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 20:14:12
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I'm glad the Snitz community can talk about this subject rationally... The message boards on Yahoo are something else...
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 20:21:34
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quote:
Originally posted by GauravBhabu
Send people Food and things which they need to live better. Win Hearts and Nations will be Conquered.
That's what we have been doing in North Korea, doesn't seem to be working there... |
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seahorse
Senior Member
USA
1075 Posts |
Posted - 20 February 2003 : 20:35:19
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My only regret about Iraq is that George Bush the Elder didn't finish the job back in 1991 and spare us this problem a decade later.
The moral case for war was far stronger then than it is now. I think that many people find it easier to ignore Iraq and do nothing now becuase Saddam is only abusing Iraqis.
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Ken
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Worldwide Partner Group
Microsoft |
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