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Posted - 09 March 2002 :  14:11:15  Show Profile
Any input on === GUIDELINES #4: WRITING V4 COMPATIBLE MODS will be very much appreciated.


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Nathan
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USA
7664 Posts

Posted - 09 March 2002 :  14:22:06  Show Profile  Visit Nathan's Homepage
You da man bozden I'll let you finish it. . .

  Nathan Bales - Romans 15:13
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Posted - 09 March 2002 :  15:24:53  Show Profile
It was ready but my wife called me to dinner .

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fatum
Junior Member

Belgium
281 Posts

Posted - 09 March 2002 :  16:14:02  Show Profile  Visit fatum's Homepage
Enjoy your lunch

Excellent written: clear and to the point.
I'll check the mods I already uploaded at Nathans site to see if everything is correct.

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Posted - 09 March 2002 :  16:22:34  Show Profile
quote:

I'll check the mods I already uploaded at Nathans site to see if everything is correct.



Please do not take them as they are and elaborate on them. Together we can find better solutions .


Edited by - bozden on 09 March 2002 16:39:58<
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Nathan
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USA
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Posted - 09 March 2002 :  16:43:51  Show Profile  Visit Nathan's Homepage
quote:
Do not allow unnecessary multiple definitions for the same string in one file. You may allow (or not allow, if you want to make it more flexible) multiple definitions


Brings up another good question.

Why has "All Forums: been defined seperatly for every single file in the base code? Couldn't things like this and "Admin Options" that are used alot and taken in the same contenxt be made global lang strings?

  Nathan Bales - Romans 15:13
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Posted - 09 March 2002 :  17:07:32  Show Profile
quote:

Why has "All Forums: been defined seperatly for every single file in the base code? Couldn't things like this and "Admin Options" that are used alot and taken in the same contenxt be made global lang strings?



In v4b03.003, there are 46 different strings/phrases that are used more than 3 times. These are (pay attention, some have & nbsp;):

All Forums 17
Go Back To Enter Data 15
All Forums 15
Password: 14
Admin Section 14
There Was A Problem With Your Details 11
NOTE: 11
Back To Admin Home 11
Reset Old Values 10
Congratulations! 10
Submit New Config 9
Send 9
Configuration Posted! 9
User Name: 8
On: 8
Off: 8
UserName: 6
Un-Lock Forum 6
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Admin Login 6
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Hello %s1% 5
Forum Locked 5
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The average length of these strings are about 12.8 (the global average is 32.1 chars).

This is a part of a post I sent to the closed developers Forum titled "v4-Discussion-1: Reducing the String Load":
quote:

d) Define Global Strings (or Functions): At an early stage I decided to keep each file standalone and not to define/share language variables among files. I.e. every file has its own definition for "All Forums". This will increase the flexibility in language and in program writing, but we have some performance lost here. Note that there are no duplicates in a file, i.e if the same phrase is used more than once, they use the same variable. Here are the current values: There are 46 such strings (some very similar) repeated more than 3, resulting in 322 definitions (322-46=276 duplicates).

We can define variables like LangGlobal00010 = "All Forums".

Pros: Although this can be though as a good %14 reduction, it is not actually so. The average number of chars in these repeated strings are 12.8, so the savings in file size and server memory are much less (~%8). The real saving will be in the area of translation.
Cons: It will not be easy for the programmer to keep trach of these "global" variables. You must use a "lexicon" to find what they are.
My idea: We should not do this. But as most of these variables are repeated as a part of repeated code, such as the folder structure at the beginning of each file, error messages saying "go back to enter data" or "There Was A Problem With Your Details", link for the "admin section", entries for "username" or "password". I think it will be better to move some of these into inc_functions.asp as a whole, also reducing the repeated strings.





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Nathan
Help Moderator

USA
7664 Posts

Posted - 09 March 2002 :  17:13:10  Show Profile  Visit Nathan's Homepage
That makes sence.

There should be a law against being so organized.

  Nathan Bales - Romans 15:13
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4116 Posts

Posted - 09 March 2002 :  17:17:42  Show Profile
quote:

That makes sence.

There should be a law against being so organized.

  Nathan Bales - Romans 15:13
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This is called Engineering .

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fatum
Junior Member

Belgium
281 Posts

Posted - 10 March 2002 :  14:01:36  Show Profile  Visit fatum's Homepage
I'm still in favor of using some global vars or something.
Now I always have to go back and look up how I translated eg. "All Forums" so that it will look the same on all pages.
If we put general sentences/words (like "All Forums", "username", ...) together and create a "dictionary" for mod developpers, it would be more manageble for translators.

Just my 0.02 euro



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Posted - 10 March 2002 :  16:02:51  Show Profile
I'm not sure, but let's see how it becomes with v3.4... It can also be done easily later.

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HuwR
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United Kingdom
20593 Posts

Posted - 11 March 2002 :  04:07:03  Show Profile  Visit HuwR's Homepage
Bozden,

quote:

The new table names, new field names created by the MOD must consist of UPPERCASE English ASCII charset for compatibility reasons.



What compatability problems does this cause ?

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Posted - 11 March 2002 :  05:47:56  Show Profile
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HuwR
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Posted - 11 March 2002 :  06:10:53  Show Profile  Visit HuwR's Homepage
Ok, I figured it may be for SQL 6, but didn't realise chilli ASP would require this. I don't see how it affects your problem with turkish though, since field names and tables names are not geberally passed to any casing routines, only their contents, which is my understanding of what the article is saying.

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Posted - 11 March 2002 :  06:37:08  Show Profile
quote:

Ok, I figured it may be for SQL 6, but didn't realise chilli ASP would require this. I don't see how it affects your problem with turkish though, since field names and tables names are not geberally passed to any casing routines, only their contents, which is my understanding of what the article is saying.



We are used to fight against these compatibility problems in the past with Windows systems, and the same problems come out again and again in other packages, thanks to the MS programmers who don't care on globalization issues. This is also valid for other packages (*nix etc) thou.

This link explains exactly the problem we have:
PRB: ADO Recordset Field Name with Letter "i" Is Case-sensitive with Turkish Settings (Q279651)

This is another related issue (fixed in SQL Server 2000 Service Pack 1): http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q295325

More similar problems (to show that this is a more general issue):
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q199931
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q142867

The "rule-of-thumb" given in the guidelines does solve these compatibility issues from its root (as suggested in the last link posted above), I think.


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HuwR
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 11 March 2002 :  06:58:07  Show Profile  Visit HuwR's Homepage
I'm not trying to be argumentative, or finicky, but not of your links would suggest that they MUST be in uppercase.

Your first link
PRB: ADO Recordset Field Name with Letter "i" Is Case-sensitive with Turkish Settings (Q279651)

Says only that the case in the rs("fieldName") must match the case of the actual field, so you couldn't call the field FRED and then use rs("Fred"), but as long as the field is called 'Fred' then it is OK.

The other links were pretty specific and I don't see how they would affect the forum.


Don't get me wrong, I am not saying we shouldn't do this, since it is necesary for SQL 6 compatability, but people may think that this is necesary in everything they do, and unless they want to support SQL 6 this is not true.

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