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 Japanese lang1041.asp file semi-ready
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seahorse
Senior Member

USA
1075 Posts

Posted - 23 January 2002 :  20:32:39  Show Profile  Visit seahorse's Homepage
quote:

You can use Notepad to just open it up as a txt file. Failing that virtually any HTML editor will open up and display .asp code for you.

HALO - an EverQuest and Camelot Guild



Make sure that you use something that's double byte capable. I don't know if Notepad is or not. Not all html editors are double byte friendly. Homesite 4.5, which comes with UltraDev 4 for example, isn't double byte friendly. You can try the free demo version of Homesite 5.0 from Macromedia, which is capable of handling double byte characters.

Ken

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n/a
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593 Posts

Posted - 24 January 2002 :  03:25:37  Show Profile
Thanks guys. Notepad I have (with XP, US version) does not support doublebyte. Will check Homesite 5.0. Will get back to you guys. Will also try NJStar (which supports all flavors of Japanese encoding for saving the text files which I used to create Japanese web pages....)

LeoRat

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n/a
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593 Posts

Posted - 24 January 2002 :  04:04:49  Show Profile
I could lang1041.asp in Word2002, setting MS Word as a default HTML editor...(thanks to MS's unicode implementaiton...) went through Japanese quickly. Super job. Since I took a quick scroll and viewing Japanese fast, I didn't particularly notice any that you mentioned need "translating"....will check further. (Thanks for a quick guidance...no need to download Homesite or try with NJStar Japanese WP/Editor.... but can now save the file in all flavor of Japanese encoding scheme, in addition to your base unicode file.)

Any particulars that I might take a further look into this file? (BTW, I believe I am still qualified as a native speaker for JA with some accent.... had been in software/web globalization/internationalization/localization arenas for some time...so hope that I have enough appreciation of what's involved here...)

Aloha,
LeoRat



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593 Posts

Posted - 25 January 2002 :  05:04:40  Show Profile
quote:

quote:

Ok, this is important. Is not necessary to include a char encoding in HTML page to can see correctly japanese chars, only you should use it when you introduce japanese chars directly without decodification.


Hi Aldeberan,

I've taken a look at your unicode file version of the lang1041.asp file and I can't read it. The unicode encoding is not very human friendly and I don't have the software necessary to make it readable.

While I understand your desire make the Japanese language file as accessable as possible, the unicode encoding makes it tough for me to continue any further translations on the lang1041.asp file. Is there any other way around the unicode encoding?

Ken





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593 Posts

Posted - 26 January 2002 :  04:47:06  Show Profile
Sorry about the previous one...still learning how to use a forum... I am going through lang1041.asp file... there are some consistent char corruption with @and it appears a lot as an expresion ܂ is used often. It is not easy to go through the file. I am creating a separate file with the original with the problem and my correction, rather than changing the original file since it is not clear what is changed if done that way. Hope to get it done over this weekend. I have to figure out how to deliver it. What will be the best way?

LeoRat

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aldebaran
Starting Member

Spain
30 Posts

Posted - 26 January 2002 :  19:34:15  Show Profile
quote:


Hi Aldeberan,

I've taken a look at your unicode file version of the lang1041.asp file and I can't read it. The unicode encoding is not very human friendly and I don't have the software necessary to make it readable.

While I understand your desire make the Japanese language file as accessable as possible, the unicode encoding makes it tough for me to continue any further translations on the lang1041.asp file. Is there any other way around the unicode encoding?

Ken





Mmm, I don't know. The problem is it's not possible to use more of one encoding type in the web page, so if you are using japanese encoding in the page you can't see correctly the chars of the other languages.

Only way that I know to solve it is using the unicode encoding.

To make readable the unicode codes you need to use Frontpage 2000 or XP. With this application you can write and see japanese chars perfectly, you haven't to see any unicode code. Only you will see unicode encoding if you see HTML code, but you can see japanese chars perfectly in normal view, then you can do the translations here.

Aldebaran.

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n/a
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593 Posts

Posted - 27 January 2002 :  04:38:00  Show Profile
Hi Aldebaran,
Yes, I understand a page need to be set with a particular encoding and unicode is probably the best encoding scheme for web page. I am using XP Home with Office XP Std and Global IME (unicode based editing scheme from MS). I don't have FrontPage. I can use MS Word2002 as HTML editor which I am doing right now, so that I can open multiple docs to work simultaneously for an original file to go through, editing/making comments in another, and creating a newly amended doc. (Easiest way to do cut and paste and edit across) I can save it in unicode, EUC, Shift-JIS, etc. encoded HTML page if needed. Although local encoding scheme of EUC or Shift-JIS are often used, for multilingual enviornment, including Japanese, unicode provides the best approach, I believe.

Anyway, I won't say that my amendament or translation is any better and may not be exactly consistent with some stylistic issues, I am close to finish my quality assurance on lang1041.asp for some char corruptions in the source file and amending them and adding translation to the sections not fully done yet.

Will catch you folks as soon as I finish my round of proofing/QA and some additional JA translation for a further review.

LeoRat<
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seahorse
Senior Member

USA
1075 Posts

Posted - 27 January 2002 :  21:10:19  Show Profile  Visit seahorse's Homepage
Hi LeoRat,

The lang1041.asp file that I posted was for v4b2. Have you incorporated the changes required for v4b3 in the file you are currently working on? If so, could you post a copy in shift-jis and unicode format? I'd like to take a look at your changes. Looks like it's time to cough up the $29 to upgrade my copy of HomeSite 4.5 to v5...

So far, you're the only person who has taken a look at the file and provided any sort of feedback.

Thanks.

Ken



Edited by - seahorse on 27 January 2002 21:38:41<
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n/a
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593 Posts

Posted - 27 January 2002 :  21:46:08  Show Profile
Hi Seahorse,
I can save a version I worked on in Shift-JIS, as soon as I finished my first round (although it won't be totally complete as some words are not clear how to put them in Japanese). I think I need to understand your conventions in Japanizing some words...there are only two repeatedly appearing charset corruptions - for "a" in hiragana and "ken" for "kengen" for "(access) rights". I haven't look at v4r3 requirements and not sure what are additional items. (Am still brand new - 4 days with Snitz...) - can you advise where I can get the file or know additional requirements.

Will post it when done....

LeoRat

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seahorse
Senior Member

USA
1075 Posts

Posted - 27 January 2002 :  21:46:15  Show Profile  Visit seahorse's Homepage
quote:

To make readable the unicode codes you need to use Frontpage 2000 or XP. With this application you can write and see japanese chars perfectly, you haven't to see any unicode code. Only you will see unicode encoding if you see HTML code, but you can see japanese chars perfectly in normal view, then you can do the translations here.

Aldebaran.



Hi Aldebaran

I have a question for you regarding unicode. If I have an English Win 2000 pc without the Japanese IME and I try to access a unicode Japanese web site, will the web site display the Japanese?

Do you know which browsers or Operating systems support unicode? Thanks for the help. I've never had to use unicode before. I just keep two PCs, one English, one Japanese. It might take some getting used to.

Ken

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aldebaran
Starting Member

Spain
30 Posts

Posted - 28 January 2002 :  15:34:22  Show Profile
quote:


Hi Aldebaran

I have a question for you regarding unicode. If I have an English Win 2000 pc without the Japanese IME and I try to access a unicode Japanese web site, will the web site display the Japanese?




Yeah, you only need to have installed the unicode font type in your system. As you understand, it's impossible to see Japanese chars in your system if you don't have installed the correct font. But this is independent of the IME.

quote:


Do you know which browsers or Operating systems support unicode? Thanks for the help. I've never had to use unicode before. I just keep two PCs, one English, one Japanese. It might take some getting used to.

Ken





Well, I have installed Opera browser in my system and I can see perfectly unicode chars in Japanese web pages. Also Netscape supports unicode, but I have never tried it.

Most of modern systems support unicode, for example Linux, OS/2, BeOS, ... Only you need that the system supports unicode and to have installed the correct unicode font.

But other question is Java. With Java you only can use Japanese chars if the operating system is in Japanese. You won't can see and write Japanese chars in Java if your operating system is in English.

In this way, the use of HTML is a great advantage :).

Aldebaran.

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n/a
deleted

593 Posts

Posted - 28 January 2002 :  16:19:08  Show Profile
quote:

quote:


Hi Aldebaran

I have a question for you regarding unicode. If I have an English Win 2000 pc without the Japanese IME and I try to access a unicode Japanese web site, will the web site display the Japanese?




Yeah, you only need to have installed the unicode font type in your system. As you understand, it's impossible to see Japanese chars in your system if you don't have installed the correct font. But this is independent of the IME.

I have been using Windows (English) for some years, and for Japanese input method, I am using Global IME. XP fully integrate this into XP Office suite, so that I can use Office also in Japanese for input/edit. For Japanese or CKJ display, in IE, a browser prompt you for downloading necessary font types if you don't have them in your browser, and you can download them automatically, in your Win2000 EN enviornment. Assume this is the same for NetScape (which I haven't used for some time). This is also for Korean, Simplified/Traditional Chinese, etc. You can also use Global IME input method from MS for any of CJK). This is the environment I am using. If you like to do Japanese inputing/editing, you can download IME for Win2000 from MS.
(This doesn't require a native Japanese OS environment, so you can basically have a similar enviornment in your Win2000 as your Japanese PC/OS which already can handle native Japanese encoding plus Enlgish).....leorat
quote:


Do you know which browsers or Operating systems support unicode? Thanks for the help. I've never had to use unicode before. I just keep two PCs, one English, one Japanese. It might take some getting used to.

Ken





Well, I have installed Opera browser in my system and I can see perfectly unicode chars in Japanese web pages. Also Netscape supports unicode, but I have never tried it.

Most of modern systems support unicode, for example Linux, OS/2, BeOS, ... Only you need that the system supports unicode and to have installed the correct unicode font.

But other question is Java. With Java you only can use Japanese chars if the operating system is in Japanese. You won't can see and write Japanese chars in Java if your operating system is in English.

In this way, the use of HTML is a great advantage :).

Aldebaran.





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seahorse
Senior Member

USA
1075 Posts

Posted - 28 January 2002 :  21:06:49  Show Profile  Visit seahorse's Homepage
Hi Aldeberan,

How do I know if a font is unicode or not and do you know where I can get unicode fonts? Is Arial in Windows or Helvetical on the Mac a unicode font? It might be difficult to use unicode in the lang1041 file for v4 if unicode fonts aren't widely distributed.

Ken

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Dixon
Starting Member

Australia
15 Posts

Posted - 29 January 2002 :  09:13:55  Show Profile  Visit Dixon's Homepage
Hi All,

I am also a user of the Snitz Forums. I am impressed by all the good work that is happening here. I may be able to give a hand on using Unicode. I've roughly read through what has been posted in this part of the Forums. I think you have come close to the answer and then switch away from it.

FrontPage is the best solution and currently the most powerful tool for developing multilanguage Unicode web pages. If FrontPage is not available and you have Win 2k or XP then use Notepad and save your language page in UTF-8 format in Notepad. UTF-8 is the only answer to a page with multi languages. In fact you can use more than a hundred different languages in one web page using Unicode.

If you are using Win 2k and up then all the fonts in it are Unicode fonts. Microsoft is the best place to get free Unicode fonts. If you need CJK fonts then download one of Microsoft's IME but if you are using Win 2k, XP, Office 2000, Office XP then you should already have all the required fonts and IME for your language in those setup CDs'.

How to know that a font is Unicode font? There are some third party Font viewer which help you to view all the Unicode glyps of a font (use Google and type in "Font viewer" you will find a lot). Arial installed in Windows 98 and up is a Unicode font but it only supports a certain number of languages and definitely not the CJK characters. Mac still running after Unicode and does not work well with Unicode yet. So don't be surprised if you can not read a certain languages in Unicode in Mac.

Unicode fonts are everywhere now. If you are using Windows 98 and up then you already have a lot of Unicode fonts and you can even download Unicode fonts from Ms site. Microsoft already used Unicode in many of their products since Windows 95.a, NT 4, Office 97, IE 4 ... and Unicode reaches its top perfection in Windows 2000 and XP. You may say that Access 97 is not storing Unicode as good as Access 2000 but it does store Unicode in NCR and UTF-8 format. If you stored Japanese in UTF-8 format in Access 2000 then you can read the characters right away in all the raw tables like you read them in Ms Word.

With all the above said please stick to using UTF-8 with corresponding CodePage directives for the language used, Frontpage or Notepad (in Windows 2000 and XP) for all the languages and don't waste your time fruitlessly.

Keep up your good work seahorse and LeoRat! [:-)]

WebTranslator

Edited by - Dixon on 29 January 2002 09:30:29<
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n/a
deleted

593 Posts

Posted - 29 January 2002 :  18:14:32  Show Profile
Hi Dixon,

Thanks for your message and clarifying Japanese and unicode.... great to know about Japanese stored in UTF-8 format in Access 2000 (gee, wish I knew this earlier... as I recently encountered issues in handling Japanese in Access 2000 database and we used EUC, local native char format...rather than sticking with unicode enviornment which was my preference...)


LeoRat



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