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Barry Sumpter
Starting Member
7 Posts |
 Posted - 07 March 2005 : 16:53:33
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Setup is more complicated than it needs to be.
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Simple text explaining what a category is compared to groups and forums would be nice.
Suggestion for the least amount of effort to explain where to add Forums and Forum Groups on the Administration Index:
Add Forums and Forum Groups via the ALL FORUMS view using the Icons to the right.
The tool tips on the icons were NOT working yesterday, but seem to be working today. Making it very hard to setup. Could be just my PC. Perhaps not.
Even now when I post a message to this forum and I've misspelled my password my message is lost - no back - no nothing to recover. Not Cool. My previous message was longer, worded better, and full of positive feedback. I'm out of time so this one is shorter.
I'm happy that SNITZ uses MSAccess instead of me having to pay my web host for SQL Server. Thanks SNITZ.
I also feel SNITZ is faster on browser response time.
And since I don't plan on having very many users (i.e. just paying clients) I expect MSAccess and the repose time to be the best solution.
Suggestion: Add comments to configuration parameters. Would negate needing help file or step-by-step procedure.
ALl the best .... |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20595 Posts |
Posted - 07 March 2005 : 17:15:36
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quote:
Setup is more complicated than it needs to be.
How is it too complicated, especially since you are using access as a db. |
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Barry Sumpter
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2005 : 00:04:56
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Hi HuwR,
 How funny is that! You didn't understand the points I was attempting to make. And I don't understand why you don't understand.  |
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EEEPman
Starting Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2005 : 04:44:20
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I gotta weight in here.
I'm just starting with this too and I agree, certain basic things are not dealt with at all. Just take a look at my posts and you'll see what I mean.
HuwR, with respect to you being the admin and having over 12,000 posts, try to see it from the point of view of someone just coming to this. Ask yourself, "How is a newbie supposed to know to do that?"
You're not going to learn anything by arguing with people that they SHOULD have understood. Listen to them. The man told you what his difficulties were. If you want to know mine, you can look at my posts as well, or not.
Paul Cicchetti
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20595 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2005 : 05:47:54
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Did you actually read the setup instructions ?
plus neither of you actually answered my question.
How is it too complicated. |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20595 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2005 : 05:54:12
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quote:
Originally posted by EEEPman
I gotta weight in here.
I'm just starting with this too and I agree, certain basic things are not dealt with at all. Just take a look at my posts and you'll see what I mean.
HuwR, with respect to you being the admin and having over 12,000 posts, try to see it from the point of view of someone just coming to this. Ask yourself, "How is a newbie supposed to know to do that?"
You're not going to learn anything by arguing with people that they SHOULD have understood. Listen to them. The man told you what his difficulties were. If you want to know mine, you can look at my posts as well, or not.
Paul Cicchetti
I looked at your posts eepman and none of them relate to problems with setting up Snitz, but are your misunderstanding of how websites work and other basic stuff like how to unzip. |
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EEEPman
Starting Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2005 : 23:07:45
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I know very well how to unzip. I've been doing it for 15 years.
You do not state anywhere which versions of unzip work. Winzip version 4 that I had on my computer worked for every other file I've ever unzipped. It did not work on yours and the Winzip error message mentioned corrupted files, which didn't lead me to suspect version problems. A simple line reading "Winzip version (so and so) and later." would have saved me half a day
If you were to go to my site you would see that NONE of the suggested database paths worked at my host, NOR did the suggestions provided by the host. I was fine writing my own, eventually, on the principles stated, except it didn't occur to me and never would have, that a blank space after driver= could make a difference. In no other language I know does it. That cost me a whole day.
On setting up a development area, three rounds of advice from two experts has been necessary to clarify things and even they did not get it right the first two times. There should be specific instructions on doing something as basic and necessary as that. Also, you have no links to getting IIS or any tools for asp development. These issues, still unresolved, have cost me three days so far.
It's true, I don't know asp. If you are saying that if I knew what you knew, it would all be clear, that is a truism that sheds no light on how to write instructions for newbies.
I guess it's a matter of deciding where you want to draw the line. But, if you want what I or anybody else tells you to be useful, lose the idea that we are talking about right or wrong. We are just stating our experience. Just take it as feedback, not judgement.
My suggestion: a simple explanation of asp syntax and delimiters, or better, an asp primer with more copious examples of database paths related to specific host setups might make it easier. Making the relationship from the specific to the general is, after all, how people learn language, no?
No worries. I didn't expect this to be pain-free or obvious, although, to tell the truth, I did expect that after 5 years and 3 versions, some of the simpler stuff would have been sorted out.
But it's ok. I'm still very grateful for the very useful software.
Paul |
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withanhdammit
Junior Member
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2005 : 23:23:39
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I feel like I've gotta chime in here. You can check my profile to see how long I've been a member. I thought it was quite clear and very straight forward to install this forum. In fact, I now have 4 different copies running on various different sites. In fact, I have also written a mod already. No I am not an asp programmer, in fact, I have never viewed asp source code before I downloaded this forum. I am not a programmer of any sort. I took one VB6 class a number of years ago, and other than BASIC (old TRS-80 days), that's the only programming I have ever done.
What I'm trying to say is, a definite newbie like me - and you can do a quick search for my posts, and yes, I'm asking some "dumb newbie" questions, all in all, this forum was in actuality quite easy to install and configure. I have it running both with the provided MSAccess db backend, and I just installed it a couple of days ago with a MSSQL2000 back end.
You talk about an asp primer/syntax/delimiters...I have none of those either. I say again, I never viewed asp source code until I downloaded this forum and started applying mods.
You're right, it's not about right vs. wrong, my initial experience with this software has been nothing but positive. It was quite easy to install, easy to configure, easy to add mods to it, easy to get support for it, easy to ask other users for help on how things work and what do to if you want to do something different. To use your words, don't take this as judgement, it's just my initial experience.
h |
I reject your reality and substitute my own. |
Edited by - withanhdammit on 08 March 2005 23:26:37 |
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Doug G
Support Moderator
USA
6493 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2005 : 23:25:46
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quote:
There should be specific instructions on doing something as basic and necessary as that. Also, you have no links to getting IIS or any tools for asp development. These issues, still unresolved, have cost me three days so far.
Here's a link: www.google.com
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Doug G
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Computer history and help at www.dougscode.com |
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Da_Stimulator
DEV Team Forum Moderator
USA
3373 Posts |
Posted - 09 March 2005 : 00:45:39
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I like the way snitz is set up and sets up better than any other Forum I've installed. I also like the placement of things (the administrative tools) - makes more sense than what you see out there.
As far as setup being too complicated, I dont see how. If you have run a website for more than five minutes you probably know how to upload files. If you've downloaded anything off of the internet before ever in your life, you know how to unzip files. Dosnt sound too hard to me... unzip, upload.
Oh yeah I forgot, you gotta change 1 line in config.asp before you upload...
Pretty simple and straight-forward to me. |
-Stim |
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Classicmotorcycling
Development Team Leader
Australia
2085 Posts |
Posted - 09 March 2005 : 02:48:37
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Actually Da_Stim it is 2 lines of code. What type of DB and what connection to the DB, nice and simple. I have helped you out EEEPman and got your forum working with-in a minute of access to your files and I have never used Brinkster before. I advised you to setup a development site so you could learn about the product and would help where I could. I have found Snitz to be the easiest forum software to setup and have helped quite a few out.
If people wants something that they download straight away and just put in their home directory and expect it to work are as to put it in general terms "CRAZY". There is no software that will ever do that, and it takes some confiuration to get it done. If you are not sure how to do it, put PWS on your desktop and play with the forum that way. There is a couple of simple files in the tools.zip called: whereami.asp and testemailcomponent.asp
whereami.asp: Gives you the current physical directory on your web server that you are calling the file up from
testemailcomponent.asp: It is what is says, it tests to see what email components are on the server
The forums here are a help area and nothing more, I know a lot of other forum software does NOT give the support that you get here.
So play with the software, try and break your copy and do it again. If you want a MOD on your forum, then follow the read me files or what ever they have in them and do it right. Everyones forums are always different so you have to learn to adapt to get it working for you, no matter how experienced you are. No use complaining, cause it makes me not want to help those who do, and I have a lot of people over the years I have been using Snitz.
My $2.55 worth on the matter.
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Cheers,
David Greening |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20595 Posts |
Posted - 09 March 2005 : 05:00:10
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quote:
Originally posted by EEEPman
I know very well how to unzip. I've been doing it for 15 years.
You do not state anywhere which versions of unzip work. Winzip version 4 that I had on my computer worked for every other file I've ever unzipped. It did not work on yours and the Winzip error message mentioned corrupted files, which didn't lead me to suspect version problems. A simple line reading "Winzip version (so and so) and later." would have saved me half a day
Well, Snitz does not require a specific version of winzip to unzip it, it is a standard zip file and dows not even require winzip, so have no idea what you are wittering on about, and have never heard any reports of anyone ever having corrupt file messages when trying to unzip.
quote:
If you were to go to my site you would see that NONE of the suggested database paths worked at my host, NOR did the suggestions provided by the host. I was fine writing my own, eventually, on the principles stated, except it didn't occur to me and never would have, that a blank space after driver= could make a difference. In no other language I know does it. That cost me a whole day.
And did any of the examples you were given have a space in them, they certainly don't in the config.asp that comes with the forum, if your host requires some non standard connection string, how is that our fault or problem.
quote:
On setting up a development area, three rounds of advice from two experts has been necessary to clarify things and even they did not get it right the first two times. There should be specific instructions on doing something as basic and necessary as that.
Also, you have no links to getting IIS or any tools for asp development. These issues, still unresolved, have cost me three days so far.
If you don't know what IIS is then you really shouldn't be playing around with web development for it.
quote:
It's true, I don't know asp. If you are saying that if I knew what you knew, it would all be clear, that is a truism that sheds no light on how to write instructions for newbies.
All you need to do to setup the forum is know how to open notepad, it does not require any asp knowledge whatsoever, and there are thousands of people here to prove it.
quote:
I guess it's a matter of deciding where you want to draw the line. But, if you want what I or anybody else tells you to be useful, lose the idea that we are talking about right or wrong. We are just stating our experience. Just take it as feedback, not judgement.
My suggestion: a simple explanation of asp syntax and delimiters, or better, an asp primer with more copious examples of database paths related to specific host setups might make it easier. Making the relationship from the specific to the general is, after all, how people learn language, no?
No worries. I didn't expect this to be pain-free or obvious, although, to tell the truth, I did expect that after 5 years and 3 versions, some of the simpler stuff would have been sorted out.
But it's ok. I'm still very grateful for the very useful software.
Paul
Making a post that says setup is compicated without qualifying your statement is about as helpful as a kick in the b*******, and you can't blame the setup if you made the initial mistake of inserting a space in your connection string. |
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EEEPman
Starting Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09 March 2005 : 05:08:50
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OK, you win.
But I learned.
P |
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Classicmotorcycling
Development Team Leader
Australia
2085 Posts |
Posted - 09 March 2005 : 05:21:56
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Can we put something straight here. In your topic: Got database line wrong on Brinkster the very first reply from me with-in 2 hours of your request which gave you the string that was used to get your site running.quote:
Originally posted by EEEPman
If you were to go to my site you would see that NONE of the suggested database paths worked at my host, NOR did the suggestions provided by the host. I was fine writing my own, eventually, on the principles stated, except it didn't occur to me and never would have, that a blank space after driver= could make a difference. In no other language I know does it. That cost me a whole day.
I went to your site as I also mentioned in that very first post. The only one that should take resposibility for the connection string not working is the person setting the forum up.
The site was not listed by you to also test it out, but put there by me, not that would of helped as it was not resolving correctly. I am sorry, but most of the issues are caused by people not following what is clearly written in front of them.
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Cheers,
David Greening |
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EEEPman
Starting Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 09 March 2005 : 22:46:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Classicmotorcycling
Can we put something straight here. In your topic: Got database line wrong on Brinkster the very first reply from me with-in 2 hours of your request which gave you the string that was used to get your site running.
Well, Classic, that is not quite my recollection and I just went to the 10 e-mail private exchange that took place between us to verify.
You did NOT write the string that got my site running, I did.
You made several suggestions, none of which worked. Then you were kind enough to visit my site and you got it working simply by removing the space between driver= and \\premfs...
I replied with thanks, noting that I never would have thought of that, since, in the languages I knew (like C++), spaces don't count.
All of this took place over the space of half a day or more.
Seems like we agree. It's not simple. It won't work out of the box. It needs experience which takes fooling around with.
I heartily agree and I don't expect it to work out of the box. It's just that there are a lot of little pieces and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's tripped on them. It would be nice if they were mentioned.
I don't understand what you mean by the following:
quote:
The site was not listed by you to also test it out, but put there by me, not that would of helped as it was not resolving correctly. I am sorry, but most of the issues are caused by people not following what is clearly written in front of them.
But, really, I'm not unhappy and I am grateful for all your help.
It's just that if a guy says "it's not simple", I have to chime in and say "you're right, it's not." Look at all the trouble behind my starting a development area. Jorrit, an experienced user, thought that was a cinch and it's not. There are a lot of issues, and better documentation would help. That's just my opinion based on my experience. Arguing about it is not going to change that.
P |
Edited by - EEEPman on 09 March 2005 22:50:37 |
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withanhdammit
Junior Member
USA
236 Posts |
Posted - 10 March 2005 : 00:32:19
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Again, I have to disagree. It is simple, and it does work out of the box. As I stated before, I have little to no experience with asp in any way shape or form, yet I had absolutely no problems installing and configuring the forum. It was when I started installing MODS that I became active on this board.
My 2˘
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