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Dave.
Senior Member
USA
1037 Posts |
 Posted - 21 October 2004 : 21:35:04
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So today I'm in my third period class, it had just started so I wasn't working yet. I had my laptop in my lap (My IEP says I'm allowed to use a laptop), and I have my CAT5 cable going under the table to the network jack. I also had my external 40GB HD (Power-over-USB) connected to the school computer in front of me. (Just plugged it in, waiting for it to be detected by Windows 2000)
I had just booted my laptop up, and I was sitting at the desktop - the IT woman walks in and I quickly close my screen - I'm really supposed to be programming - she then says something like "He's hiding something, he just closed it". At this point I panic and pull out my network cable and kick it under the table.
I put my laptop and HD away, realizing they are pissed off. So about 10mins later, my "administrator" (assistant principal) comes in, and asks me to come with him, and takes the names down of 4 others in the class.
I'm walked to the office and he says to put my backpack in this room... I say that he can't made me leave my property in a location that is not secure, he responds with "I can do whatever I want, I run this school." What the hell? I have to leave my $1,700 laptop in a room because you are a moron? How is that right? I then am made to wait in the office for 20 minutes (I'm now missing my 4th period class... heh). I noticed this network woman go into the room with my backpack, but I don't think they went through it.
Eventually I'm called into his office, where the two IT people are and him. He asks me to boot my laptop and let them "see what I have," doesn't that require a search warrant? I can't see them having the power to search my personal property. After I show them that I have no "hacking tools" (hehe, what fools, I have Putty.exe on my desktop). What they think I had, I have no idea. This woman now asks me what "player.exe" is on my desktop, and asks me to run it. (What the hell could she think it is? Some hacking tool? lol!) My hand-coded media player opens, and she is impressed with my skill (Heh, 4 Hours total).
Now they want to see the contents of my external HD, yet they fail to see my "E:" partition on my main drive... I try to explain that I just replaced my HD with a new, 80GB one and put the 40GB one in this external USB shell. I open explorer and show them the F: drive, explaining that it's a windows XP installation and that there is nothing to see. Then, this woman asks for "a print out of all the files on the drive," I basically say "Um, no" while thinking "Wow, you are a moron, you are the IT manager?!" I knew that there was NO WAY they could request such a thing. however, if they insisted I'd have printed out pagefile.sys from notepad. :D
I was then told that I could not connect my laptop to their network and that I was not to connect my HD to any of the computers either. However ti is okay to use our USB-Flash drivers (Some of my friends and I have Sandisk Cruzer Micro drives that we use to transfer data). That shows again how foolish they are, I can have a 1GB (Mine is 256mb, but they come in 1GB+) flash drive, but not a 40GB external HD? What the hell do they think I would do?
After all this happened, I can quite confidently say that I am more certified to run our schools' network than any of them are. (Considering I administrate the WindowsNT domain at work, and Linux/Windows server systems at home) |
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 21 October 2004 : 22:00:27
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You don't have many rights in school. You are on the school's property, using the school's resources. Why did you have your external HD plugged into the school's computer for anyway? And, why did you have your laptop hooked up to the school's network? The school has every right to search your external HD and your laptop since you had them hooked up to their property. No search warrant is needed.
Just because you "CAN" do something, doesn't mean it's right or allowed.
To answer your question, NO your school did not violate your rights. But, you violated the school's computer network. |
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Dave.
Senior Member
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 21 October 2004 : 22:37:36
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How did I? I was never informed that I could not use my external HD (to backup my files on the network share) and to use my laptop (to download a file from home).
But what about them taking my laptop away from me?
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html
Article [IV.]
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 21 October 2004 : 22:58:52
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You ran the risk of it being confiscated by connecting it to the school's network. You knew it was wrong.quote:
At this point I panic and pull out my network cable and kick it under the table.
You don't think that looks suspicious? You knew that your laptop should not have been connected to your school's network, that is pretty obvious.
You got off very lucky. I would have done much more if I were the network admin at your school.
the search was not unreasonable. There had every right to search it, you gave them that right by hooking up your laptop to their network, and then acted suspiciously when you were caught. You will get no sympathy here, I deal with people like you on a daily basis. School is for school work, do your other stuff at home. |
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Dave.
Senior Member
USA
1037 Posts |
Posted - 21 October 2004 : 23:01:22
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I don't care that they searched anything, It's that THEY TOOK MY COMPUTER AND LOCKED IT IN A ROOM. They can't take anything, not without any evidence.
What if the building burned down and I couldn't get my computer out? |
Edited by - Dave. on 21 October 2004 23:04:13 |
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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin
USA
16655 Posts |
Posted - 21 October 2004 : 23:18:22
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It's simple common sense. Why would you think it's ok to hook up your laptop to the school's network, and then connect to your home computer and transfer files? Do you honestly think that is ok?
You are on the school's property, the school administration makes the rules. If you choose to bring your property onto school grounds, then you are submitting to have that property searched and/or confiscated. If you don't want your laptop to be searched/confiscated, then leave it at home.
I really don't see the issue here. The school did nothing wrong/illegal. You on the other hand... |
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Da_Stimulator
DEV Team Forum Moderator
USA
3373 Posts |
Posted - 21 October 2004 : 23:25:06
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Instead of panicing and acting suspicious, you shoulda just left it hooked up, then acted like a dumbass when they asked you about it, I doubt they wouldve confiscated anything.
If I walked into a room and some kid had there labtop hooked up to my network, and an external hd hooked up to the usb, I'd start asking questions too...
although I would have taken the computer, and personally searched through the entire thing looking for any suspicious software...
And (not to get into politics or anything) - with the country at war over terrorism, with people who obviously will sabotage anything they can get there hands on, who's to say you werent distributing a virus throughout the schools network, crashing student data, grades, and who knows what else.
The point is not that you werent doing anything wrong, but the fact that you were shady about not doing anything wrong. |
-Stim |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20595 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 03:46:29
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I would have to agree with Richard on this one, the school had every right to do what it did, especially since you have readily admitted to us that you have software on your laptop that shouldn't be there.
quote:
After all this happened, I can quite confidently say that I am more certified to run our schools' network than any of them are. (Considering I administrate the WindowsNT domain at work, and Linux/Windows server systems at home)
From your attitude to your peers, I would say you were not well qualified to run anyones network. |
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Classicmotorcycling
Development Team Leader
Australia
2085 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 04:37:00
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Sorry Dave. but I feel I need to also point out something here apart from what everyone else has said and is correct.
You stated earlier the following:quote:
Originally posted by Dave.
I'm walked to the office and he says to put my backpack in this room... I say that he can't made me leave my property in a location that is not secure, he responds with "I can do whatever I want, I run this school."
Yet on another reply you state this:quote:
Originally posted by Dave.
I don't care that they searched anything, It's that THEY TOOK MY COMPUTER AND LOCKED IT IN A ROOM. They can't take anything, not without any evidence.
What if the building burned down and I couldn't get my computer out?
You just stated that it was in a locked room, now in my books and I am sure you will find out, that a locked room is counted as secure.
The school does have every right to protect it's property, which you were clearly doing something that you where suposed to not be doing, leaching files from their network. This gives them the right to see your personal laptop computer.
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Cheers,
David Greening |
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laser
Advanced Member
Australia
3859 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 05:52:46
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quote:
From your attitude to your peers, I would say you were not well qualified to run anyones network.
Totally agree.
Dave, your FIGJAM attitude and knowledge of their network has probably alerted them WAY before they really saw what you were doing.
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After I show them that I have no "hacking tools" (hehe, what fools, I have Putty.exe on my desktop).
PLEASE!!! ... it's a terminal emulator, nothing more.
Sorry, you might be able to brag to your mates after school about this, but it doesn't go far in the commercial world - and this site. |
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miperez
Junior Member
Spain
243 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 06:05:19
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LOL
I really don't know about legal issues, I just know that if I go inside one lab that I have to take care of, and see one of the laptop users close the screen, and then pull out the network cable and kick it under the table, I would think that he was doing anything, but authorized / legal matters.
Instead of the laptop, I would surely lock the user inside a room until I discovered what he was doing, just in case. But that would be kidnapping, I guess  |
Best Regards
Mikel Perez
"Hell is the place where everything test perfectly, and nothing works"
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Edited by - miperez on 22 October 2004 06:09:13 |
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RebelTech
Average Member
USA
613 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 06:32:57
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| As for as legalities, your presence in the school is consensual besides the Supreme Court ruled in 1985 in New Jersey v. T.L.O. that school officials, unlike police, may search students without a warrant when they have "reasonable grounds for suspecting that the search will turn up evidence that the student has violated... either the law or rules of the school." |
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pdrg
Support Moderator
United Kingdom
2897 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 06:34:34
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I have to say I think the school is in the clear, and that you've been lucky, and if you're smart you won't do it again.
In business they would probably call this Gross Misconduct, even though there was no specific instruction to NOT plug into their network and act suspiciously. But you're young, so you walked away. You can learn lessons from this - either 'do the funky stuff as thought experiments only' or 'don't get caught'. Personally I know I'd be in so much trouble if I'd done a fraction of the security violations I'd mentally mapped out.
From the school's side, perhaps they ought to consider tougher security on their networks, but schools are poor, and places of learning, and a pretty free environment compared with the real world. If you want to carry on doing funky stuff on their network, maybe you could discuss working with their netadmins to see if there are any policies etc you could help them implement to secure their network - this gives you free reign to think of funky stuff, but actions to protect against it. Everyone gains.
And remember, hackers do not steal or break stuff (that's criminals or vandals respectively), but enjoy original thought and systems modelling etc. And if you use script kiddie 'hacker tools' then give me a break - you should be writing your own as it's the way to learn! |
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sr_erick
Senior Member
USA
1318 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 10:35:20
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| Wow you guys are taking it pretty hard on Dave. Where did he say the school said "no computers allowed on thier network"? Now I don't know if this is a HS or a college but my college campus, laptops are welcomed in class. No one goes without a laptop in class and every seat has a network port as well as the room having wireless. |
Erick
Snowmobile Fanatics
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20595 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 10:44:09
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| I think if you read them again you will find that it was his attitude and behaviour that people are berating him for not the fact that he could or couldn't do what he did. |
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taropatch
Average Member
USA
741 Posts |
Posted - 22 October 2004 : 11:12:28
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When I was in HS, we were using Tandy TRS-80. In college it was the MAC classic but since I didn't own one, I guess I couldn't get in trouble with my Smith Corona word processor.
I feel old. |
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