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rick7165
Senior Member
USA
1094 Posts |
 Posted - 10 August 2002 : 21:59:33
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Why are people building mods for 4.X when 3.3 and so on was not released? I downloaded a Mod for 3.3.05 and it's full of Language packs. I'm not trying to start a war or fight I just want someone to explain to me nicely why 4.X was pushed out into the public before any of the 3's where done and mods are now being wrote with Language packs in them that the Offical Release Snitz code doesn't have Language support?
My opinion is 4.X Should of never been released Snitz is way off from releasing 4.X but it seems people are writing mods for 4.X and 3.3 didn't even come out yet.
I think Snitz should release 2 Versions of the forum code 1 with Language packs the other without. Not everyone needs the Language Packs.
This is all so confusing and I've got a headache now :( And please don't slam me... I'm NOT running down 4.X or the Language Packs my concern here is why are mods being built with Language packs for a Offical Snitz release that doesn't support Language Packs.
And my next question is.... Is 4.X built on the 3.4 base code? If so ok... If not does this mean 4.X has to be rebuilt all over? I know the mods for 3.4 are totally different now.
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Roland
Advanced Member
Netherlands
9335 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:03:35
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yes, 3.4 will be used for 4.x and if I'm correct, you won't need to upgrade to 4.x unless you need internationalization.
After 4.x work will begin on adding CSS to the forums and my guess is that 4.x will be used for that. But we're far from beginning on that so I won't speculate any further.
I can't give any answers to your MOD related questions as I've never written any real MODs  |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:05:14
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Version 4.0Beta3 is just 3.3.0X changed to enable easier translation for other languages. Of course, since you can just use the original english version, you can see no use for 4.0Beta, but I can tell you there are hundreds if not thousands of users of 4.0Beta, simply because it's easier to translate.
The mods that use langpacks, similar to what happens with 4.0Beta, are just antecipating the future and easying international users work. Since they use langpacks from the start (including an english langpack) there is no further effort needed to have them in other languages, other than translating the lang files, and that is pretty easy.
Hope the need for 4.0Beta is more clear now...
4.0Beta4 will be based on 3.4. 4.0 Final will include a whole lotta more features needed for Internationalization of Snitz. |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
Edited by - ruirib on 10 August 2002 22:06:12 |
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rick7165
Senior Member
USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:07:20
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Ok.. That sounds good, but why Language packs are being put into MODS that go into a Offical Forum Code that doesn't support Language is my main question.
And does this means Snitz is releasing 2 Versions of the Code? One with Language and One without?
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Test Site:
EastPasco Huw's Code 3.3.10 SQL 2000
Huwr's Modified Code
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by rick7165
Ok.. That sounds good, but why Language packs are being put into MODS that go into a Offical Forum Code that doesn't support Language is my main question.
I think I've answered this one.
quote:
And does this means Snitz is releasing 2 Versions of the Code? One with Language and One without?
Not sure about this. I don't think a decision has already been made on this. |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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Roland
Advanced Member
Netherlands
9335 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:10:38
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4.x will be a new version, but based on 3.4. The expectation is that no major changes will be made next to the internationalization, so users who don't need internationlization can stick with 3.4. However, nobody knows what the future will bring, and new features might be added to 4.x which make upgrading to it interesting.
<edit> This is what I've gathered from posts in the past. </edit> |
Edited by - Roland on 10 August 2002 22:11:32 |
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rick7165
Senior Member
USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:13:38
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But what about MODS for 3.4? we are forced to use them with Language MODS?
This sounds like Snitz needs to split into 2 parts. |
Test Site:
EastPasco Huw's Code 3.3.10 SQL 2000
Huwr's Modified Code
Email |
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Roland
Advanced Member
Netherlands
9335 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:15:37
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| I think it's up to the MOD Developer to support internationlization or not. As far as I know there are no rules on how to write your MODs. |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 10 August 2002 : 22:18:07
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Hmmm, not sure that I agree on the need to split Snitz.
I think Active Users is a good example of what can be done: have a single code version and treat all languages the same, using lang packs. Whether this will be done this way will be up to the mod creators really.
I don't see a big problem with langpack use. And I haven't counted, but I'd say that the number of international users shouldn't be much less than the number of english speaking users, if less at all... |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
Edited by - ruirib on 10 August 2002 22:18:56 |
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HuwR
Forum Admin
United Kingdom
20595 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2002 : 04:45:14
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| I think what RIck is gettig at, is that people should not be releasing MODS as 3.3.0x compatable when they are in fact for v4beta |
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Deleted
deleted
4116 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2002 : 06:27:05
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quote:
Originally posted by rick7165
Why are people building mods for 4.X when 3.3 and so on was not released? I downloaded a Mod for 3.3.05 and it's full of Language packs. I'm not trying to start a war or fight I just want someone to explain to me nicely why 4.X was pushed out into the public before any of the 3's where done and mods are now being wrote with Language packs in them that the Offical Release Snitz code doesn't have Language support?
My opinion is 4.X Should of never been released Snitz is way off from releasing 4.X but it seems people are writing mods for 4.X and 3.3 didn't even come out yet.
I think Snitz should release 2 Versions of the forum code 1 with Language packs the other without. Not everyone needs the Language Packs.
This is all so confusing and I've got a headache now :( And please don't slam me... I'm NOT running down 4.X or the Language Packs my concern here is why are mods being built with Language packs for a Offical Snitz release that doesn't support Language Packs.
And my next question is.... Is 4.X built on the 3.4 base code? If so ok... If not does this mean 4.X has to be rebuilt all over? I know the mods for 3.4 are totally different now.
I don't know how I missed this post... I see your point, I also respect you opinion, but I really couldn't get the reason why you are against it. I've also a couple of things to say on this, if you don't mind (look, I'm not slamming you  ).
- v4 Beta's are official Beta releases of Snitz Forums 2000
- The saga will continue with v4, i.e. anything after v4 final will be based on v4 final
- Internationalization/localization concepts requires major changes to the code, not just collecting strings in a file. Snitz code is not written for multi-language support, it is "too much English dependent" and not optimized. The task spans from date-time formats up to cultural differences. And if I'm doing it, I'll do it right. You can read about it here and here for example...
- You are saying that you won't need non-english features, but there are more (prospective) users out there who will NOT USE English on Snitz, but other languages.
- Because of the size of the project and translation related issues such as finding volunteers, testbeds etc, a long lasting beta period has been a must.
- MODs are an important part of the project, because without them on-site usability could not approach its current level. Therefore, upon request, I've written a document (first version) to guide v4 compatible MOD writers, so that while converting MODs to v3.3 or to v3.4, these can be taken into account. You can find it here: === GUIDELINES #4: WRITING V4 COMPATIBLE MODS. I also converted (not translated) a couple of MODs to see the issues and to be able to advice people on these. Thanks to some MOD authors, they have taken these into account and there are hundreds of live v4b04.004 based modded forums. This is important because it is working... This is although I don't recomment it on a live site, just because it is beta... If we were to start v4 related tasks now, you would see v4f a year after or so.
- The mods released with language packs are NOT necessarily v4 compatible, because there is no v4 final yet.
- The first beta version of v4 is released on 2001-08-07 15:00, and v4b03 was relased on 2001-10-31 07:40 (actually late because of the server crash the main Snitz site suffered). The latest patches were required because of ongoing v3.x development and security stuff.
- v4 was planned as a version coming after v3.3... My initial idea was to compile the international version in at most 3 months (in September 2001) and continue to live with its successors. But v3 related development could not be stopped, it was too buggy, response.write stuff, etc.
- AFTER final release of v3.4 I'll re-start doing everything again and finish the task ASAP, also fixing bugs after v3.4f, so like v4b03.004, it will overreach its ancestor. Addon's/Features? I don't know. They will be decided by the Dev-Team.
- With the current state of the art, v4 will come with English preinstalled, you will not need to do anything to use it in one language, which is English.
- You will not loose any measurable performance with v4.
- Of course one can stick with a specific version of forum, like a lot of people did with v3.1 sr 4, but after sometime you will need to upgrade to get rid of unforseen bugs or new features.
Just wanted to summerize my last year and following few months .
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 Stop the WAR! |
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin
Portugal
26364 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2002 : 06:42:53
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quote:
Originally posted by HuwR
I think what RIck is gettig at, is that people should not be releasing MODS as 3.3.0x compatable when they are in fact for v4beta
Active Users 4.0 is both 3.3.0x and 4.0x compatible. The fact the a mod uses a lang pack does not make it uncompatible with 3.3.0x, as active users so clearly shows (I constantly refer to Active Users, since it's the one I know better).
If I were a MOD writer, wanting to have my MODs available for as large a user base as possible, I would certainly use lang packs. The fact that with lang packs you only need a single version of the code is a very big advantage, IMHO, not only from the initial developmente point of view, but also from what happens after initial development, with bug fixes, enhancements and so on. |
Snitz 3.4 Readme | Like the support? Support Snitz too |
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rick7165
Senior Member
USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2002 : 13:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by bozden
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v4 Beta's are official Beta releases of Snitz Forums 2000
Why wasn't 3.4 released as a beta so we could work with that code and MODS could of been wrote for 3.4 instead 4.X was released which forced DEV to write MODS for 4.X and leave 3.4 in the dust.
My point here is WHY did Snitz allow 4.X to be released and skipping over 3.4 which now when 3.4 is going to be released nobody is going to want it because 4.X was pushed out and many people are using it 1. Because people like beta's 2. MODS are being wrote with Language Packs in them. 3. People are NOT going to down grade to 3.4 from 4.X So really 3.4 is going nowhere.
4.X should of stayed in the Hands of the DEV Group until is was out of Beta just like 3.4 is I can't get 3.4 right now because It's in Beta!, but I can get 4.X Beta.
You have to remember 3.4 has no Language Packs in the base code so why do we need Language Packs in the MODS?
It's a done deal now... To late to fix, Basically I should skip 3.4 and get 4.X because if I'm going to install a MOD with a Language Pack I should have a Snitz base code that supports Language Packs. So 3.4 is really old news already. Out of date.
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Test Site:
EastPasco Huw's Code 3.3.10 SQL 2000
Huwr's Modified Code
Email |
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GauravBhabu
Advanced Member
4288 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2002 : 13:45:03
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So 3.4 is really old news already. Out of date.
It is not even out Yet.
Keeping the text strings, even if you are not using languages other than English, has its advantages. IMO, of course. |
CSS and HTML4.01 Compilant Snitz Forum . ForumSquare . Rakesh Jain
It is difficult to IMPROVE on Perfection, There is no harm in Keep Trying.
Prayer Of Forgiveness "I forgive all living beings. May all living beings forgive me!
I cherish the friendliness towards all and harbour enmity towards none." -- Aavashyaka Sutra(Translated) |
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rick7165
Senior Member
USA
1094 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2002 : 13:46:33
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That's my POINT! It's not OUT! But MODS DEV are making mods with Language Packs in them... So what does this mean?? It means the MOD DEV are building MODS for 4.X and not 3.4 because 3.4 Base Code Does NOT have Language Support... So why release 3.4? Its old news.
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Test Site:
EastPasco Huw's Code 3.3.10 SQL 2000
Huwr's Modified Code
Email |
Edited by - rick7165 on 11 August 2002 13:47:57 |
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Roland
Advanced Member
Netherlands
9335 Posts |
Posted - 11 August 2002 : 13:54:08
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For the record: 3.4 is not in Beta version. There have been several Beta versions which were kept in the hands of the Dev team. The version the Dev Team and Moderators now have (and is installed here) is 3.4 RC2.
The reason 4.x betas were released is, as Bozden pointed out, because it's a complete new way of using Snitz. 3.4 is an upgrade with some new features, but 4.x will be a lot more than that.
Yes, people have been warmed up to use 4.x betas because it's more convenient than having to go through 70-some files and translating them. Having the ability to install MODs in that version made it nicer too. I agree with you on that. But looking at the complexity of version 4.x, I see a good reason why betas have been released for testing.
3.4 isn't old news at all. It's a new version with several new features and enhancements in the base code. 4.x is, and it's been said dozens of times now, still a beta so really NOT an official release, and NOT optimized at all.
"Changing from a 4.x beta to 3.4 final is downgrading"... Well that depends on how you look at it. When I look at 3.4 I see highly optimized codes, several new features and higher useability. I don't see that in 4.x except for the internationalization. |
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