Speedball 3 anyone?

Snitz™ Forums 2000
https://forum.snitz.com/forumTopic/Posts/56107?pagenum=1
04 November 2025, 21:12

Topic

D3mon
Speedball 3 anyone?
13 December 2004, 13:55


Thinking about 'diving in' again this winter for another round of changes to Speedball (currently at version 2)

Projected changes might be:

  • Another pass over the code for bandwidth savings
  • SEO optimisations (courtesy of ASPWiz) whihc have proved very successful on my own forums
  • Optimizing the CSS a little more
  • removing some of the nested table structure where possible, replacing it with a more CSS-focussed layout
  • Updates as suggested by helpful members since release of Speedball2
  • Snitz 3.4.05 updates and fixes
<

 

Replies ...

PeeWee.Inc
13 December 2004, 14:04


Woohoo! my idea smile
Yeah, i'd be intrested in this, along with testing it for you smile
Was great work on speedball and speedball 2.. so i should think this one will be even greater smile<
Chuck McB
13 December 2004, 15:16


yup, I'd be up for some SB3 action (SB2 took my site from 4Gb to 500Mb a day and wouldn't say no to shaving a bit more off that)<
PeeWee.Inc
13 December 2004, 15:23


If i was you, i'd add the Split Topic Mod MOD to the base-code smile<
D3mon
13 December 2004, 15:42


Thanks Chuck McB. Yours were some of those fixes/updates I mentioned. Nice Work. smile<
D3mon
13 December 2004, 16:04


Heres a taste of the kind of structure the new code might take: default.asp 800x600 screenshot of same code with CSS applied

Note that I've used DW's Automagic Code Formatting tool to make it easier to read than the standard Speedball output in this case.<
Davio
13 December 2004, 16:36


The code looks very good D3mon. Been getting into DIV and CSS myself and I am loving it. Keep up the good work on this mod.<
D3mon
13 December 2004, 16:43


Thanks Davio. Yup, CSS rulez!<
Ranko
15 December 2004, 07:23


Originally posted by D3mon
  • Optimizing the CSS a little more
  • removing some of the nested table structure where possible, replacing it with a more CSS-focussed layout

D3mon, D3mon, he's our man,
If he can't do it,
No one can! smile<
Ric
15 December 2004, 07:35


I'd like to see more done to Speedball too. I want to Speedball my forum, but I'll need to Speedball the code in my Photo Album Mode first!!<
D3mon
15 December 2004, 08:17


Thanks Ric. I'm really grateful for the support everyone has shown here smile
Work continues on default.asp (and the associated support files) at the moment. I'll try to post an update later today.<
OneWayMule
16 December 2004, 00:40


I'd definately be interested in a Speedball 3. smile<
D3mon
29 December 2004, 07:33


Here are some examples of the progress so far...
default page snitz css
I'm no expert on CSS positioning (other than floats) but I'm hoping that this structure allows for page elements to be freely positioned using advanced CSS positioning.<
cripto9t
02 January 2005, 12:26


Looks good D3mon.

I'm working on replacing alot of the html tags with a style sheet on my forum and I have a question. I see that you have hard coded the forum variables (font, background, etc..) to an external style sheet. Is this done for bandwidth purposes? Just curious smile.<
D3mon
02 January 2005, 16:44


helps with bandwidth, but is mostly for flexibility purposes - just edit the one style sheet to change any 'visual/layout' aspect of the forums is the goal.<
MarkJH
03 January 2005, 05:07


It also helps those who want to use alternative stylesheets.
I recently 'CSSed' my forums. Took a lot of work and that's without re-creating the tables using DIVs. Best of luck and total respect!<
D3mon
30 January 2005, 10:51


Here is a pre-beta build. May be a little unstable, so is suited to test purposes only
Work so far has focussed on the main pages: default.asp, forum.asp and topic.asp, although the admin section is also nearing completion.
Looking for some feedback on any noticeable performance increases and accessibility improvements over Speedball 2.<
Chuck McB
30 January 2005, 14:22


/me downloads
Is there a reason for commenting out lines 63-65 in config.asp?<
D3mon
30 January 2005, 15:50


Ooops, no. blush [updated .zip]<
Ranko
03 February 2005, 07:14


Hola. I just installed the SB3 and opened it in Firefox where the forum table moves all the way to the top, overlaying the forum navigation. And it does that only on the default.asp, the topic and forum pages show up normaily.
Justa heads up; if anyone noticed that, please let me know.<
D3mon
03 February 2005, 12:15


Hmm, sounds like a CSS float problem, I'll check it out.<
aspwiz
17 February 2005, 08:09


I would like to make my own changes to the code D3mon for SEO reasons before you release it... if yourself or nobody else objects.<
wii
17 February 2005, 08:21


D3mon, will the next version be XHTML compliant ?<
D3mon
17 February 2005, 09:41


as close to XHTML compliant as possible, but there are still some issues with the auto-generated post content that don't seem to be fixable.<
D3mon
17 February 2005, 09:45


Originally posted by aspwiz
I would like to make my own changes to the code D3mon for SEO reasons before you release it... if yourself or nobody else objects.

OK, no probs.<
wii
17 February 2005, 09:45


auto-generated post content ??? what is that ?<
Shaggy
17 February 2005, 09:57


Probably referring to things like ampersand and the way some formatting tags are closed within posts.
<
D3mon
17 February 2005, 12:33


yeah, stuff like: [ red ] [ /red ] getting converted to <span style="color: #f00"> </span id="red"> - XHTML doesn't allow attributes in closing tags etc..<
aspwiz
17 February 2005, 17:07


d3mon.... it's gonna be a fairly simple fix.... BUT not without converting the site in a specific way

grab me over MSN and I'll let you know the plan. <
D3mon
18 February 2005, 04:22


don't say that! - make me look like a novice! wink<
aspwiz
18 February 2005, 05:13


LOL<
wii
18 February 2005, 05:16


Are you talking about a fix to make the new version 100% XHTML compliant or did I miss something?<
Shaggy
18 February 2005, 06:08


Originally posted by aspwiz d3mon.... it's gonna be a fairly simple fix.... BUT not without converting the site in a specific way

grab me over MSN and I'll let you know the plan.
I'd love to see the results of that experiment. Tried to come up with a solution for removing the attributes from end tags while working on Woo.ie with naff all success.
<
aspwiz
18 February 2005, 13:31


Originally posted by Shaggy
[i]Tried to come up with a solution for removing the attributes from end tags while working on Woo.ie with naff all success. [/black]

thats the easy bit<
aspwiz
19 February 2005, 05:29


thats the easy bit

This regular expression will return all end tags
</([^\s>]*)(\s[^<]*)>

simply see if it has a space inside, and if so insert a > where there space is and ignore the remainder<
Shaggy
21 February 2005, 05:55


Thought regular expressions might be the solution; gonna have to spend a bit of time reading up on them this week, try to get my head around how they work.
<
Ranko
11 March 2005, 07:57


D3mon, any update, progress report, or additional help you need?<
MarcelG
11 March 2005, 08:12


D3mon ; just a quick question ; do you think that speedball 3 would be suitable to serve as an alternative to normal snitz for visitors/users using a PDA or mobilephone(smartphone) ?<
D3mon
11 March 2005, 08:28


ranko: progress hasn't really moved on from the pre-release at the moment as I'm working on a new version of my own site. I do anticipate picking up the pace again soon though.
marcelgoertz: Your question raises an interesting point and one that I'm currently battling with. The intention is that Speedball 3 will be as 'accessible' as possible, which infers that it will be better suited to use on a multitude of browsers/readers including small-screen devices.
At the moment I'm tied on whether to keep the tables used to display the actual forum output (with the argument that it is actually tabular data) or break them rows down into individual DIV's. The latter should work better on a small-screen device (as the tables won't have to be linearized by the browser) and be more accessible, but the visual appearance of the layout might look radically different, which I currently feel might be a negative. <
MarcelG
11 March 2005, 09:25


D3mon ; I must say that even with the normal snitz I'm quite content on my smartphone ; the pagesize is what bothers me most, cause (at least here in the Netherlands) one would need to pay per Mb on GPRS... So, with custom (tiny) images, and CSS I guess it would be very good already. I'm not sure if the DIV's are really required for PDA/Smartphone devices.<
Shaggy
11 March 2005, 09:33


A few less characters invloved with divisions, though, which can make all the difference if you're paying per MB.
<
MarcelG
11 March 2005, 09:37


Okay ; I'm convinced ; d3mon ; loose the tables, hurray with the div's! clown<
Shaggy
11 March 2005, 09:40


Was also in two mind about whether or not divisions were the way forward as topic.asp, etc. do contain tabulated information but, if they're going to save the mobile user a few shekels then they get my vote bigsmile
<
D3mon
11 March 2005, 10:11


favour of the div solution so far then... smile<
TStewartFan
30 April 2005, 07:44


Just wanted to drop in and see how development was going on the new Speedball 3? Any chance of a released beta version in the near future? Great work on Speedball 2 and can't wait for the slimmer, faster, DIV upgraded version! You rock D3mon! eightball<
D3mon
01 May 2005, 16:09


DIV upgrade process has been slower than I'd thought. Every time I get good headway, I discover something new that means I need to rework some of the changes... I know it seems a bit like vapourware at the moment, but I'm sure I'll get there..<
MarcelG
02 May 2005, 03:23


As it says on the coins ; in D3mon we trust. wink<
Ranko
02 May 2005, 04:40


I'm working on my own version with pure div layout and is almost finished (beta: translated to what my forum needs, and little else). There are some elements I droped and changed, but it is looking sweet.
I expect to upload the site within 10 days, and if there si interest/liking I'll share as soon as I clean up the hardcoding I did.<
wii
02 May 2005, 08:50


I´m hoping for a XHTML/CSS version with some MODS included.<
D3mon
02 May 2005, 13:56


Hopefully, Speedball3 (or as I may call it on release, Speedball Pro) will be a CSS dream - ala www.CSSZenGarden.com , allowing radical scope for design possibilities...<
Ranko
03 May 2005, 04:18


SR3 I did, I had to move some stuff (like navigation from header to footer file), but it is nice because you need one small css rewrite to go from horizontal toppage navigation to vertical column navigation.
Also, because the main layout is div ID based, it is dead easy to redo the font stuff, links & hover effects, add new stuff; replace background colors with images...
I love me some CSS.<
Ranko
03 May 2005, 04:21


Originally posted by wii I´m hoping for a XHTML/CSS version with some MODS included.
SR3 is pretty XHTML friendly (not 100% sure 'cause I has been a ong time since I actually looked at the specs); CSS 2.
As per my needs I droped Integration (really useless with CSS), but it does have Avatars (+a few addons), Private Messages and Event Calendar. Also included is the edit that changes tree navigation's "All Forums" to "Your Forum Name Here" for better searche engine response.
I hate site polls so it is not in.<
wii
03 May 2005, 09:49


My MOD needs are "just":

Avatars
Active Users
File Attach
Polls
Photoalbum<
Ranko
04 May 2005, 04:38


Converting mods to any CSS version is easy as pie if you know how to read the backend. I changed all of the mods I am using right now for S2<
MarcelG
21 June 2005, 07:30


....mmmmm....bump

wink any news yet?<
Ranko
22 June 2005, 04:29


I am pretty much done, not really happy with some of the layout solutions (as those had to change, for my sanity, if nothing else). Need to look into a few more things and it will be announced (or as soon as I upgrade my forum, it will be announced).<
MarcelG
22 June 2005, 09:54


Okay!! Looking forward to it!<
D3mon
02 July 2005, 17:39


Speedball 3 CSS Challenge.
This is the output code from the current default.asp.
The challenge is to build a stylesheet (snitz.css) which styles the output in a variety of ways (ala http://www.csszengarden.com/) WITHOUT changing the actual HTML code.
If this works out, then it will set the standard for the remaining pages.<
D3mon
10 July 2005, 10:30


*Speedball 3 progress update*
Have spent most of the weekend on it, whihc has really moved it forward. A demo version is available for viewing at:
http://www.buildyourown.org.uk/newforums/

Still so much to do though! smile<
MarkJH
10 July 2005, 19:04


Looks fantastic. Runs amazingly.
I take my hat off to you, D3mon. [^]<
StephenD
10 July 2005, 19:40


Awesome! Extremely fast.<
wii
11 July 2005, 02:29


And it validates too - fantastic !!!!!!!!
Try it at:

http://validator.w3.org/<
D3mon
11 July 2005, 04:00


I hadn't tried the validation yet (usually leave that to the end of the project) but I'm glad its almost there!<
wii
11 July 2005, 04:32


The mainpage does validate, not the other pages (yet) - looks good.<
AnonJr
18 August 2005, 11:40


Originally posted by D3mon
Here is a pre-beta build.

I was curious if this has been updated with the latest work, and where development stands at the present time?

It appears with this that you have done some of what I was wanting to do (namely the CSS, bandwith savings, and latest updates).
I would like, with your permission, to use this as the (new) starting point for my LMS (Learning Mangement System) project.<
D3mon
18 August 2005, 16:51


Progress is slow at the moment, the latest version is up at www.buildyourown.org.uk/newforums/ for developement testing. I've no problems with it being used for your project, so long as it's usage remains within the boundaries of the existing Snitz Open Source-type restrictions.<
AnonJr
19 August 2005, 16:08


Originally posted by D3mon
so long as it's usage remains within the boundaries of the existing Snitz Open Source-type restrictions.

With the gains I've gotten from this software, I wouldn't dream of doing otherwise!
One of the big things I was wanting was CSS support. I was going to use the CSS w/ Style Changer (I don't have where I got it with me at the moment..), and I came across this. I like this a lot better as it uses a more current version of the base code.
However, I am working on adding the Style Changer control panel to this so I can edit the styles from a control panel instead of editing the stylesheet directly. I'll let you know how it goes... I know all about slow progress (and frequent interuptions..blush)
<
philwhite
03 September 2005, 06:36


Hi, D3mon,
For some reason, your newforums link has been down for a while. Any chance of an updated beta/pre-beta release so that I can have a look at some integration issues for the site redesign I'm working on (painfully slowly). I've just started switching a pretty extensive site from hardwired HTML and tables to dynamic, managed content and DIV + CSS, and I reckon your approach would slot in just nicely.
Thanks for all your efforts!<
D3mon
14 February 2013, 18:56


I realise it is a significant number of years later, but is there any interest for Speedball 3/Pro out there in 2013 :)
Looks like all the other projects stalled while I've been away...
golfmann
14 February 2013, 21:16


yea, sure....
anything to improve and why not? :)
D3mon
15 February 2013, 05:40


Code output from default.asp

I only plan on aggressively optimising the main pages: default.asp/active.asp/forum.asp/topic.asp

Features:
1. *Almost* validates HTML5
2. CSS powered
3. HTML Compressed (enabled/disabled by config.asp setting)

Code:

<!doctype html><html lang="en"><head><title>BYO Forums</title><meta name="copyright" content="This Forum code is Copyright (C) 2000-09 Michael Anderson, Pierre Gorissen, Huw Reddick and Richard Kinser, Non-Forum Related code is Copyright (C) 2000-08 Snitz Communications"><meta name="description" content=""><meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0"><link href="snitz.css" rel="stylesheet" media="all"><script src="openwindow.js"></script></head><body><header role="banner"><table id="top" class="tc fw"><tr class="vat"><td class="w50"><a href="default.asp"><img src="images/logo_snitz_forums_2000.gif" alt="BYO Forums" title="BYO Forums"></a></td><td><form action="/3407/default.asp" method="post" id="form1" name="form1"><input type="hidden" name="Method_Type" value="login"><table class="tc"><tr><td class="dff dfs c"><b>BYO Forums</b></td></tr><tr><td class="dff ffs c"><nav role="navigation"><a href="../">Home</a> | <a href="pop_profile.asp?mode=Edit">Profile</a> | <a href="register.asp">Register</a> | <a href="active.asp">Active Topics</a> | <a href="members.asp">Members</a> | <a href="search.asp">Search</a> | <a href="faq.asp">FAQ</a></nav></td></tr><tr><td class="c"><table class="tc dff ffs"><tr><td><b>Username:</b><br><input type="text" name="Name" size="10" maxLength="25" value=""></td><td><b>Password:</b><br><input type="password" name="Password" size="10" maxLength="25" value=""></td><td class="vab"><input type="image" src="images/button_login.gif" alt="Login" id="submit1" name="Login"></td></tr><tr><td class="l" colspan="3"><input type="checkbox" name="SavePassWord" value="true" checked> <b>Save Password</b></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></form></td></tr></table></header><main role="main"><table class="tc w95"><tr><td><script type="text/javascript"><!--
function unsub_confirm(link){var where_to= confirm("Do you really want to Unsubscribe?");if (where_to== true) {popupWin = window.open(link,'new_page','width=400,height=400')}}// --></script><table class="fw tc"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td><table class="tbc dff ffc fcc dfs fw"><tr class="hfc hcc c nw"><td> </td><td><b>Forum</b></td><td><b>Topics</b></td><td><b>Posts</b></td><td><b>Last Post</b></td><td><b>Moderator(s)</b></td><td> </td></tr><tr class="ccc"><td class="cfc" colspan="6"><a href="/3407/default.asp?Snitz00HideCat2=Y&CAT_ID="><img src="images/icon_minus.gif" width="9" height="9" alt="Collapse This Category" title="Collapse This Category"></a> <a href="default.asp?CAT_ID=2" title="View only the Forums in this Category"><b>Category 1</b></a>  </td><td class="c nw"><b> </b></td></tr><tr class="vat c"><td><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2"><img src="images/icon_folder_new.gif" width="24" height="24" alt="New Posts" title="New Posts"></a></td><td class="vam smt l"><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2">Forum1</a><br><span class="ffs">Forum1</span></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td class="ffs nw"><b>02/14/2013</b><br> 10:34:47<br>by: <span class="smt"><a href="pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1" title="View gavinc's Profile" onMouseOver="(window.status='View gavinc\'s Profile'); return true" onMouseOut="(window.status=''); return true">gavinc</a></span> <a href="topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2"><img src="images/icon_lastpost.gif" width="13" height="15" alt="Jump to Last Post" title="Jump to Last Post" class="vam"></a></td><td class="smt l"> </td><td class="nw"> </td></tr><tr class="vat c"><td><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4"><img src="images/icon_folder_new.gif" width="24" height="24" alt="New Posts" title="New Posts"></a></td><td class="vam smt l"><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4">Forum3</a><br><span class="ffs">Forum3</span></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td class="ffs nw"><b>02/14/2013</b><br> 10:36:50<br>by: <span class="smt"><a href="pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1" title="View gavinc's Profile" onMouseOver="(window.status='View gavinc\'s Profile'); return true" onMouseOut="(window.status=''); return true">gavinc</a></span> <a href="topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4"><img src="images/icon_lastpost.gif" width="13" height="15" alt="Jump to Last Post" title="Jump to Last Post" class="vam"></a></td><td class="smt l"> </td><td class="nw"> </td></tr><tr class="ccc"><td class="cfc" colspan="6"><a href="/3407/default.asp?Snitz00HideCat1=Y&CAT_ID="><img src="images/icon_minus.gif" width="9" height="9" alt="Collapse This Category" title="Collapse This Category"></a> <a href="default.asp?CAT_ID=1" title="View only the Forums in this Category"><b>Snitz Forums 2000</b></a>  </td><td class="c nw"><b> </b></td></tr><tr class="vat c"><td><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3"><img src="images/icon_folder_new.gif" width="24" height="24" alt="New Posts" title="New Posts"></a></td><td class="vam smt l"><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3">forum2</a><br><span class="ffs">forum2</span></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td class="ffs nw"><b>02/14/2013</b><br> 10:36:19<br>by: <span class="smt"><a href="pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1" title="View gavinc's Profile" onMouseOver="(window.status='View gavinc\'s Profile'); return true" onMouseOut="(window.status=''); return true">gavinc</a></span> <a href="topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3"><img src="images/icon_lastpost.gif" width="13" height="15" alt="Jump to Last Post" title="Jump to Last Post" class="vam"></a></td><td class="smt l"> </td><td class="nw"> </td></tr><tr class="vat c"><td><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=1"><img src="images/icon_folder_new.gif" width="24" height="24" alt="New Posts" title="New Posts"></a></td><td class="vam smt l"><a href="forum.asp?FORUM_ID=1">Testing Forums</a><br><span class="ffs"> This forum gives you a chance to become more familiar with how this product responds to different features and keeps testing in one place instead of posting tests all over. Happy Posting! <img src="images/icon_smile.gif" width="15" height="15" alt="" align="middle"></span></td><td>1</td><td>4</td><td class="ffs nw"><b>02/10/2013</b><br> 11:57:24<br>by: <span class="smt"><a href="pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1" title="View gavinc's Profile" onMouseOver="(window.status='View gavinc\'s Profile'); return true" onMouseOut="(window.status=''); return true">gavinc</a></span> <a href="topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=1&REPLY_ID=3"><img src="images/icon_lastpost.gif" width="13" height="15" alt="Jump to Last Post" title="Jump to Last Post" class="vam"></a></td><td class="smt l"> </td><td class="nw"> </td></tr><tr class="cfc ccc"><td colspan="7"><b>Statistics</b></td></tr><tr class="ffs"><td rowspan="2"> </td><td colspan="6">1 Member has  made 7 posts in 4 forums, with the last post on <span class="smt"><a href="topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4">02/14/2013 10:36:50</a></span> by: <span class="smt"><a href="pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=1" title="View gavinc's Profile" onMouseOver="(window.status='View gavinc\'s Profile'); return true" onMouseOut="(window.status=''); return true">gavinc</a></span>.</td></tr><tr class="ffs"><td colspan="6">There are  currently 4 topics and 4 <span class="smt"><a href="active.asp">active topics</a></span> since you last visited.</td></tr></table></td></tr><tr><td class="dff ffs fw"><img src="images/icon_folder_new.gif" width="24" height="24" alt="New Posts" title="New Posts" class="vam"> Contains new posts since last visit<br><img src="images/icon_folder.gif" width="24" height="24" alt="Old Posts" title="Old Posts" class="vam"> No new posts since last visit<br></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></main><footer role="contentinfo"><table class="dff ffs fcc w95 tc"><tr class="ffc nw r"><td class="l fw">BYO Forums</td><td>© 2000-08 Snitz Communications</td><td><a href="#top"><img src="images/icon_go_up.gif" width="24" height="24" alt="Go To Top Of Page" title="Go To Top Of Page"></a></td></tr></table><table class="dff ffs w95 tc"><tr class="vat l"><td>This page was generated in 0 seconds</td><td class="r"><a href="http://forum.snitz.com" target="_blank" title="Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000"><img src="images/logo_powered_by.gif" alt="Snitz Forums 2000" title="Snitz Forums 2000"></a></td></tr></table></footer><script src="openwindow.js"></script></body></html>

Trying to figure out an issue with HTML5 validation of the META copyright tag required by Snitz....
AnonJr
15 February 2013, 16:38


Originally posted by D3mon
I realise it is a significant number of years later, but is there any interest for Speedball 3/Pro out there in 2013 :)
Looks like all the other projects stalled while I've been away...
Sure, why not? I know I was inspired by the lack of a more current Speedball to start a CSS/optimization project. Sadly it stalled frequently (and most recently early last year) as the work at my day job has piled in.
D3mon
25 February 2013, 07:18


Still working on this. Progress is slow but sure. smile Will be looking to push out an alpha version soon for testing purposes (but definitely not production server use).
D3mon
15 March 2013, 08:35


Latest work now on GitHub: https://github.com/gavincox/snitz-speedball-pro
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