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brujo
Average Member

USA
602 Posts

Posted - 10 April 2003 :  01:49:34  Show Profile  Visit brujo's Homepage
The troops - and the commanders of those troops - in the coalition have always had my full support - not that is worth much - and hence I never took part in any of the heated threads in the community forum - although many a time I wish I had put my views in....

but most of my thoughts were echoed by you all - especially HuwR - who also had the experience of living there...

I think the addition to the logo in this particular time is a great idea by the team....

my heart and thoughts are with all those in the situation at this time and those who love them back at home....

God bless them all - and let the rebuilding of this soon to be liberated country be started as soon as possible.

brujo<
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Kal Corp
Average Member

USA
878 Posts

Posted - 14 April 2003 :  23:46:09  Show Profile  Visit Kal Corp's Homepage
I support the troops and wish them a safe return also !
<


{VAS}-Kal Corp
VAS Development NetWork - Forums for old Snitz Mods!
Creator of all things {VAS}
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MarkJH
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1722 Posts

Posted - 04 June 2003 :  12:34:16  Show Profile  Visit MarkJH's Homepage
Since the 'war' was over some time ago, isn't it time the flags came down again?<

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RichardKinser
Snitz Forums Admin

USA
16654 Posts

Posted - 04 June 2003 :  12:52:17  Show Profile
are all of the troops home yet? <
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MarkJH
Senior Member

United Kingdom
1722 Posts

Posted - 04 June 2003 :  13:02:47  Show Profile  Visit MarkJH's Homepage
Good point, and here's me thinking you were just procrastinating. <

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Roland
Advanced Member

Netherlands
9335 Posts

Posted - 04 June 2003 :  13:03:01  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by RichardKinser

are all of the troops home yet?


Dutch troops (probably other countries' troops too) are going to/are in Iraq too, for peace keeping or something. If the flags stay in the logo, and that's your arguement for keeping them, I'd suggest addition of the flags of other countries that help in Iraq too.<
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin

Portugal
26362 Posts

Posted - 04 June 2003 :  16:37:25  Show Profile  Send ruirib a Yahoo! Message
We've had quite a nice time without further flag discussions, thank you. Personally I'd prefer to keep it that way.<


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techknow
Junior Member

USA
149 Posts

Posted - 19 September 2003 :  01:00:13  Show Profile  Visit techknow's Homepage
God Bless America and her allies!

<

Best Regards,
Techknow
http://myinternetfunnies.com

Edited by - techknow on 19 September 2003 01:01:16
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kimvery
Starting Member

3 Posts

Posted - 03 October 2003 :  00:06:01  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by dayve

11 years of service in the Navy and a Gulf War Veteran here and the oath I took then stands firm withme to this day even as a civilian. I support the troops and wish them a safe and quick return.

<
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zeth
Junior Member

United Kingdom
117 Posts

Posted - 06 December 2003 :  20:09:42  Show Profile  Visit zeth's Homepage
I think in retrospect all this flag waving, jingoism and American nationalism was a mistake and wasnít respecting of those on the other side of the political divide. I'm here because I like your ASP forum not because I want your political views forced on me. Hopefully next time there is an international crisis people will think before they alienate certain non-American users and developers of this forum.

Now I hope we can put all this behind us and we can all work together to make the best ASP forum for all people everywhere.

Thankyou.<

THEOLOGY.ME.UK CROSSRING.COM
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dayve
Forum Moderator

USA
5820 Posts

Posted - 06 December 2003 :  21:29:28  Show Profile  Visit dayve's Homepage
how is that alienating you? please, get over yourself.<

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Bookie
Average Member

USA
856 Posts

Posted - 06 December 2003 :  23:16:36  Show Profile  Visit Bookie's Homepage  Send Bookie an AOL message  Send Bookie a Yahoo! Message
Nothing like diggin' up an old topic.<

Participate in my nonsense
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Gremlin
General Help Moderator

New Zealand
7528 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  02:29:34  Show Profile  Visit Gremlin's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by dayve

how is that alienating you? please, get over yourself.


I guess its hard to understand how/why unless your on the other side of the fence Dayve. Everyones entitled to their opinion.<

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HuwR
Forum Admin

United Kingdom
20263 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  05:16:22  Show Profile  Visit HuwR's Homepage
I don't really think someone in the uk can be considered to be on the other side of the fence, but yes everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

But, how can the flags be considered 'American nationalism', when I went to school, Britain and Australia were not in America. What does zeth thing we should do? place an al-quieda flag there too ?<
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zeth
Junior Member

United Kingdom
117 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  07:35:30  Show Profile  Visit zeth's Homepage
quote:
What does zeth thing we should do? place an al-quieda flag there too ?


That is such a puerile comment that I will ignore it. Equating those who questioned the war in Iraq with al-Queda supporters is defamatory.

I understand that a site that has an active community behind it can and should discuss issues that affect our lives, even if it is strictly off topic. I also understand that a forum that talks about a forum for talking should have free speech and no censorship.

However when those that actually manage the site promote one particular political stance and devalue people who canít support that stance, as if the "objections by a few[!]" who apparently do not "honor and respect the selfless[!] sacrifice" are somehow less welcome or valued, then I think that verges on discrimination.
<

THEOLOGY.ME.UK CROSSRING.COM
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Gremlin
General Help Moderator

New Zealand
7528 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  08:24:19  Show Profile  Visit Gremlin's Homepage
quote:
I don't really think someone in the uk can be considered to be on the other side of the fence
Isn't that a little NaÔve though ? Just becuase I live in a country doesn't mean I'm a citizen of it.

Just my $0.02<

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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin

Portugal
26362 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  09:28:28  Show Profile  Send ruirib a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by zeth


I understand that a site that has an active community behind it can and should discuss issues that affect our lives, even if it is strictly off topic. I also understand that a forum that talks about a forum for talking should have free speech and no censorship.


There is no censorship here, I've never seen it myself. There are many ways to manifest an opinion, and I've never seen anyone manifesting its opinion in a civil manner being censored.

quote:

However when those that actually manage the site promote one particular political stance and devalue people who canít support that stance, as if the "objections by a few[!]" who apparently do not "honor and respect the selfless[!] sacrifice" are somehow less welcome or valued, then I think that verges on discrimination.


I saw no devaluation of anyone in this topic. In fact, I saw a show of respect and gratitude for the soldiers that would be fighting in Iraq being labeled in a not so a polite manner. So, please remember you need two to tango.

These discussions always bring passionate interventions. People should remember that it's always possible to disagree with whatever you wish and still be able to discuss the issue without name calling to the others who think differently.

I also think that with matters like this at stake, there is simply no way to stay clear of the fray, it's almost a civilizational matter. That's why I understand why the flags came into the forum, even if many people dislike it. This being a private space, you can choose to come regularly and disagree or stay away altogether. Freedom means precisely that you have the right to choose what you do, among the many options available.<


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zeth
Junior Member

United Kingdom
117 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  10:00:43  Show Profile  Visit zeth's Homepage
I think we have to call it a draw and agree to disagree on the flags etc, but I am pleased that you have listened to me and were willing to discuss it. Thankyou.<

THEOLOGY.ME.UK CROSSRING.COM
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zeth
Junior Member

United Kingdom
117 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  10:05:42  Show Profile  Visit zeth's Homepage
and I do take your point that we are lucky to live in countries that give us the right to discuss.<

THEOLOGY.ME.UK CROSSRING.COM
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cripto9t
Average Member

USA
881 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  11:09:26  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by zeth

I think in retrospect all this flag waving, jingoism and American nationalism was a mistake and wasnít respecting of those on the other side of the political divide.

Zeth,you can put your blinders on and go through the rest of your life while others fight and die in this war and the other wars to come. I'm sure the ones that make it back will appreciate the nice forum you've been working on.

I live near Ft.Cambell Ky. and around here the soldiers kinfolk hang yellow ribbons and veterans wave flags. They all hope that the young soldiers that leave here come back alive, not in one of the flag draped coffins that we see almost daily around here.

In the U.S. there is no "political side of the fence" when it comes to supporting our troops at war. I served with British soldiers when I was overseas, and I'm sure most of Britians' political parties feel the same about your troops. I emphasized that because the most important person to your way of life right now isn't the guy giving a speech in parlament It's the one in the middle of Iraq, sitting on a cot, knocking bugs off his lunch and wishing he had a shower. I'm sure you can find a few WW2 vets that will back me up on that statement.

I don't mean to be hard and I normally wouldn't even consider replying to a political statement. I'm an Army veteran of 6 yrs, I've never seen war but I was there just in case. You can say whatever you want about the U.S. You can even kick one of our flags around and set fire to it. That don't bother me, because I know alot of your countrymen have stood and fell in many battles, many wars, just for your simple right to do these things. However, when you mock the faith the American people have for thier troops by calling it nationalism, well I can't let that pass.

Well I've said enough. I'm late raising my flag. It's only going up half staff today, for some American service men and women that I will never know, but will always remember.

<

††††_-/Cripto9t\-_
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cripto9t
Average Member

USA
881 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  11:33:30  Show Profile
quote:
Hopefully next time there is an international crisis people will think before they alienate certain non-American users and developers of this forum.


This crisis is far from over .<

††††_-/Cripto9t\-_

Edited by - cripto9t on 07 December 2003 11:34:40
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HuwR
Forum Admin

United Kingdom
20263 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  16:19:15  Show Profile  Visit HuwR's Homepage
quote:

However when those that actually manage the site promote one particular political stance and devalue people who canít support that stance, as if the "objections by a few[!]" who apparently do not "honor and respect the selfless[!] sacrifice" are somehow less welcome or valued, then I think that verges on discrimination.


Maybe if you read all this stuff zeth, you would realise that the flags were there to support the troups, it was not a statement of political intent, if certain people decide they wish to interpret any other way then that is their problem, but we have made it quite clear why the flags and ribbons are there.<
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ruirib
Snitz Forums Admin

Portugal
26362 Posts

Posted - 07 December 2003 :  16:50:18  Show Profile  Send ruirib a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by zeth

I think we have to call it a draw and agree to disagree on the flags etc (...)


Looks good to me .
quote:

(...) but I am pleased that you have listened to me and were willing to discuss it. Thankyou.


No need to thank me, I always try to do that.
<


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gDewar
Starting Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 19 December 2003 :  11:36:56  Show Profile  Send gDewar an AOL message
I also wish the best for our troops and their safe return.

I'm glad to see that someone balked at the tenor of the beginning of this topic. I take great exception to the idea that support for the Commander-in-Chief is necessary to support our troops. An American patriot who truly loves our troops should want to make sure they are not over-extended, and that American blood is never spilled without due cause.

I am happy to see the dictator ousted, but, as a patriot, I am concerned that the Commander-in-Chief seemed to me to be very careless in his implementation, and appears to me not to take our soldiers lives seriously.

Further, I think it is disingenuous to use our troops to advance a political goal, especially when that same Commander-in-Chief cut combat pay before the war and veterans benefits during the war. We may disagree on many uses for our tax dollars, but I would hope it would go without question that if we ask men and women to risk their lives for the Republic, they also deserve our support when they return.
-------------------------
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
- former Commander-in-Chief Theodore Roosevelt<
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b17sam
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 20 December 2003 :  00:14:09  Show Profile  Visit b17sam's Homepage
I trust this will be taken in the right spirit ---- It is all too easy to pay lip service by waving the flag and posting messages supporting the troops, but a visit to a veteran in a VA hospital would be truly beneficial, especially in this season. You will feel glad you did. Check my site at www.b17sam.com for link to VA facilities located near you and other information. --- B17sam, veteran of 35 missions, 9Sept44 (Ludwigshafen) to 3Feb45 (Berlin) Free beer tomorrow at www.b17sam.com<
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